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What is the best woofer match for the Cornscala?


mopardave

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I have been using the Kappa 3015LF and i'm not too impressed with the low bass.   They do sound nice, but not as low as the K33e i used in these cabinets as vert Cornwalls.  Just curious to what others are using and liking for woofers in the Cornscala's.    I have tried a Crites cast basket and i thought it was kind of boomy.   I may use the K33E again, but would like your opinions.    Thanks

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6 minutes ago, mopardave said:

I have been using the Kappa 3015LF and i'm not too impressed with the low bass.  

Good morning! It seems @ClaudeJ1 is the expert here I'm sure you've seen the Super Cornwall thread the recommendation is the woofer you've been using but there is plenty of discussion in the 12 pages of different woofers. I myself use the k-48 Chorus woofer does not hit as low but very tight powerful bass in a smaller  cabinet 4.5cuft vs the 6.5cuft of the Cornwall types.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Good morning! It seems @ClaudeJ1 is the expert here I'm sure you've seen the Super Cornwall thread the recommendation is the woofer you've been using but there is plenty of discussion in the 12 pages of different woofers. I myself use the k-48 Chorus woofer does not hit as low but very tight powerful bass in a smaller  cabinet 4.5cuft vs the 6.5cuft of the Cornwall types.

 

 

Yes, cluad did say the 3015 had way more xmax, so should good pretty low.  I will reread that thread later tonight and i will make note of your K48.  Thanks and Merry Christmas.

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1 hour ago, mopardave said:

I have been using the Kappa 3015LF and i'm not too impressed with the low bass.   They do sound nice, but not as low as the K33e

the Latest K33E part  #121501  is a different woofer than the previous generations  , more power handling , and the bass has improved

https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/klipsch-k-33-e-woofer-121501/

 

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Bored this morning, so I modeled the Cornscala in WinISD with a bunch of different woofers. I estimated the volume at 175 liters and the tuning at 42.5 Hz.

 

K33E in magenta. CW1526 in red. CW1526C in orange. Eminence Kappa 15A is the best fit, in blue. Others, in green, are reasonable fits. Woofers listed but not shown did not respond well.

 

The graphic shows sensitivity as well as frequency response; all woofers driven with a 2.0 Volt signal.

 

CornscalaWoofers.png

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2 minutes ago, billybob said:

175 liters? Sounds abunch...

Outside dimensions are 35.75 x 25.25 x 16.25; inner dimensions are 34.25 x 23.75 x 14.25 = 11591 cubic inches = 6.7 cubic feet = 190 Liters. Some of that is taken up by the port and the drivers.

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1 hour ago, mopardave said:

I have been using the Kappa 3015LF and i'm not too impressed with the low bass.   They do sound nice, but not as low as the K33e i used in these cabinets as vert Cornwalls.  Just curious to what others are using and liking for woofers in the Cornscala's.    I have tried a Crites cast basket and i thought it was kind of boomy.   I may use the K33E again, but would like your opinions.    Thanks

The Crites stamped steel basket (not the cast) is the better choice for a Cornwall (the Scala part in the name is BS) if you can't get a used K33. The reason I gave up on the Super Cornwall was (unlike the Super Heresy), the cost of the mod would have been too high both in price and labor. My choice of woofer had more to do with it's superior Xmax and power handling for being able to play louder.

 

Either way, it's better to use a horn subwoofer no matter what "top end" you have that gets you down to the 60-100 Hz. range. My favorite Klipsch setup is the Bill Fitzmaurice THTLP with LaScalas because it has the same footprint as a Cornwall and gives you the best and lowest distortion bass. I used to own 2 THTLP's with Peavey FH-1 bins ("cheapScalas) with Tractrix top end and JBL "baby butt" tweeters. That sound was impressive in a large, temporary space at the time.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Bored this morning, so I modeled the Cornscala in WinISD with a bunch of different woofers. I estimated the volume at 175 liters and the tuning at 42.5 Hz.

 

K33E in magenta. CW1526 in red. CW1526C in orange. Eminence Kappa 15A is the best fit, in blue

 

 

Can you Please , show  the  curves of the Kappa 15A 8Ohms and the Kappa 15C 4Ohms -

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28 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Bored this morning, so I modeled the Cornscala in WinISD with a bunch of different woofers. I estimated the volume at 175 liters and the tuning at 42.5 Hz.

 

K33E in magenta. CW1526 in red. CW1526C in orange. Eminence Kappa 15A is the best fit, in blue. Others, in green, are reasonable fits. Woofers listed but not shown did not respond well.

 

The graphic shows sensitivity as well as frequency response; all woofers driven with a 2.0 Volt signal.

 

CornscalaWoofers.png

Thank you.  Awesome

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2 hours ago, Edgar said:

Bored this morning, so I modeled the Cornscala in WinISD with a bunch of different woofers. I estimated the volume at 175 liters and the tuning at 42.5 Hz.

 

K33E in magenta. CW1526 in red. CW1526C in orange. Eminence Kappa 15A is the best fit, in blue. Others, in green, are reasonable fits. Woofers listed but not shown did not respond well.

 

The graphic shows sensitivity as well as frequency response; all woofers driven with a 2.0 Volt signal.

 

CornscalaWoofers.png

Ok, you will have to school me reading the graph.  I assume spl is on the left, but what determines the best woofer here because I see some others peaking over the blue in spl?

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3 minutes ago, mopardave said:

Ok, you will have to school me reading the graph.  I assume spl is on the left, but what determines the best woofer here because I see some others peaking over the blue in spl?

I based my selection of "best" on flatness of response and SPL (away from the peak) as close to the CW1526 as possible. 

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@mopardave, do you have/have you ever tried a pair of the Crites woofers in your “Cornwall inspired speakers”?

 

It was a long time coming waiting for a pair to appear on the used market up here (thanks @Islander) but they are a game changer in every speaker I put them in.

 

Simply put, if you think the K-33 goes low, the Crites woofer goes instantly and noticeably lower in the same application.

 

But there may be something else in this equation. Woofers love watts. That is another game changer in my limited experience. 

 

As an aside and not to detract from this sentiment, I was privy to the cast frame woofers and had to hog out the motorboard of my “Cornwall inspired speakers” with a rasp to drop the woofer in the same hole a K-33 slotted right into. I remember my son coming down at midnight to see what all the noise was...

 

So as Claude mentioned, maybe for different reasons, the stamped frame may be a better idea for you.

 

Having a quick look at the specs for the Kappa 3015LF, it looks to me like it does not go as low as you are looking for? Built more for speed than comfort, lol.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RandyH001 said:

hang on , you need a 4 Ohms woofer not an 8 Ohms  woofer , ask @Edgar  about the Kappa 15C , it's 4 Ohms whereas the Kappa 15A is 8Ohms

Since we are talking about the Cornwall box and port (Klipsch or equivalent), I sincerely do NOT recommend a Kappa 15C in a Cornwall!

 

I was the original discoverer of this woofer and I only recommend it for a LaScala because it has about 4 db more output near 400 Hz. where the K55/K400 take over.

 

Basically, it SUCKS and BLOWS in a Cornwall, but it creates more DETAIL in the midrange in a LaScala! Pun intended.

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Same models as before, this time plots of impedance. The Kappa-15A is advertised as an 8 Ohm driver, but near the crossover frequency it's closer to 6 Ohms. That will still require a bit of adjustment to the crossover components. (I'm an electrical engineer, so to me adjusting capacitor and inductor values is no more intimidating than changing a light bulb. Others may not be quite so comfortable with it.) One could also run a 12 Ohm resistor in parallel with the woofer to change 6 Ohms to 4 Ohms, but the resistor would need to be capable of handling a fair bit of power.

CornscalaWooferImpedances.png

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4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

The Crites stamped steel basket (not the cast) is the better choice for a Cornwall (the Scala part in the name is BS) if you can't get a used K33.

 

 

I opted for the cast frame version for my home-built Cornwalls. Just curious, why is the stamped steel the better choice for a Cornwall? Aren’t the T/S parameters almost identical?

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20 minutes ago, Desert Noises said:

I opted for the cast frame version for my home-built Cornwalls. Just curious, why is the stamped steel the better choice for a Cornwall? Aren’t the T/S parameters almost identical?

Not quite. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/150164-crites-cw1526cf-ts/&do=findComment&comment=1731834

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2 hours ago, geoff. said:

@mopardave, do you have/have you ever tried a pair of the Crites woofers in your “Cornwall inspired speakers”?

 

It was a long time coming waiting for a pair to appear on the used market up here (thanks @Islander) but they are a game changer in every speaker I put them in.

 

Simply put, if you think the K-33 goes low, the Crites woofer goes instantly and noticeably lower in the same application.

 

But there may be something else in this equation. Woofers love watts. That is another game changer in my limited experience. 

 

As an aside and not to detract from this sentiment, I was privy to the cast frame woofers and had to hog out the motorboard of my “Cornwall inspired speakers” with a rasp to drop the woofer in the same hole a K-33 slotted right into. I remember my son coming down at midnight to see what all the noise was...

 

So as Claude mentioned, maybe for different reasons, the stamped frame may be a better idea for you.

 

Having a quick look at the specs for the Kappa 3015LF, it looks to me like it does not go as low as you are looking for? Built more for speed than comfort, lol.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did try the Crites cast basket and I thought they were a bit boomy for me.

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