What is the best woofer match for the Cornscala?

[geoff.]

Ok, I can relate to that.

 

I always found the K-33 boomy.

 

Even though it is now poo-pooed, I really liked the Kappa 15C in a Cornwall box. And as @jjptkd mentioned the K-48 is just a hands down killer. 

 

Something else comes into play with the boominess, how close your speakers are to the back wall. I can’t listen to anything closer than 2 feet from the back wall because of the boomy bass. And the imaging thing.

 

 

[OO1]

@ClaudeJ1  does not recommend the kappa 15C in the Cornwall , 

[mopardave]

42 minutes ago, geoff. said:

Ok, I can relate to that.

 

I always found the K-33 boomy.

 

Even though it is now poo-pooed, I really liked the Kappa 15C in a Cornwall box. And as @jjptkd mentioned the K-48 is just a hands down killer. 

 

Something else comes into play with the boominess, how close your speakers are to the back wall. I can’t listen to anything closer than 2 feet from the back wall because of the boomy bass. And the imaging thing.

 

 

When i tried the cast basket Crites they were close to the wall, maybe 1'.    I now have the cabinets about 2' from the back wall.

[IB Slammin]

6 hours ago, Edgar said:

Outside dimensions are 35.75 x 25.25 x 16.25; inner dimensions are 34.25 x 23.75 x 14.25 = 11591 cubic inches = 6.7 cubic feet = 190 Liters. Some of that is taken up by the port and the drivers.

 

Right on the money

[mopardave]

6 hours ago, Edgar said:

Bored this morning, so I modeled the Cornscala in WinISD with a bunch of different woofers. I estimated the volume at 175 liters and the tuning at 42.5 Hz.

 

K33E in magenta. CW1526 in red. CW1526C in orange. Eminence Kappa 15A is the best fit, in blue. Others, in green, are reasonable fits. Woofers listed but not shown did not respond well.

 

The graphic shows sensitivity as well as frequency response; all woofers driven with a 2.0 Volt signal.

 

Which one was the Kappalite 3015LF?  I could easily add a resistor if i choose the 15A.   Looks like the Crites stamped basket is next best.    Thanks again for the graph.

[IB Slammin]

5 minutes ago, IB Slammin said:

 

Right on the money

 

6.7 CF is what I mean

[Edgar]

31 minutes ago, mopardave said:

Which one was the Kappalite 3015LF?

3015LF in purple.

[mopardave]

3 hours ago, Edgar said:

3015LF in purple.

Thanks.  Now i know why i have to turn the volume knob so much further compared to k33e in these cabinets.

[mopardave]

1 minute ago, mopardave said:

Thanks.  Now i know why i have to turn the volume knob so much further compared to k33e in these cabinets.

Looks like i'm gonna have to buy 2 pair of woofers. One pair for my current cornscala and 2nd pair for the new build cornscala.   

[Travis In Austin]

10 hours ago, Edgar said:

. That will still require a bit of adjustment to the crossover components. (I'm an electrical engineer, so to me adjusting capacitor and inductor values is no more intimidating than changing a light bulb

How many engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

[OO1]

3 hours ago, mopardave said:

Thanks.  Now i know why i have to turn the volume knob so much further compared to k33e in these cabinets.

are these the  Square Magnet K-33E ?  

[Edgar]

6 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

How many engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

 

Will this be on the final exam?

[mopardave]

7 hours ago, RandyH001 said:

are these the  Square Magnet K-33E ?  

Actually, one was a square and one was bought new from Klipsch in 2002 and had a round mag.

[ClaudeJ1]

11 hours ago, mopardave said:

Looks like i'm gonna have to buy 2 pair of woofers. One pair for my current cornscala and 2nd pair for the new build cornscala.   

This is why it's called DIY and the price you pay for not buying a Cornwall IV.

 

Of all the K33's I owned, my favorite version of the K33 was the -P version from the early 1960's, made by CTS of Paducah. It had a square magnet. I'm pretty sure this is the one that Bob Crites specified as his target woofer when he asked Eminence to custom make them for him. I'm sure Michael can verify this for the curious.

 

Those square magnet K33's had the best bass response in my Klipsch MWMs (which were designed for that woofer anyhow). The K43's I removed from said MWMs went into my LaScalas, where I discovered that Roy Delgado was right about the higher BL product "tilt" towards the higher frequencies of that woofer "mating up" better with the factory K400/K55/AA with new film capacitors.

 

This evolved into my discovery of the Kappa 15C as the "best bang for the buck" new replacement in a LaScala to yield BETTER midrange detail in the band of the LS bin. However, it did "thin out" the low end a bit, just like the K43 did, so I always recommended using a Subwoofer anyhow, so only improvements came out of the compromise.

[mopardave]

27 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

This is why it's called DIY and the price you pay for not buying a Cornwall IV.

 

Of all the K33's I owned, my favorite version of the K33 was the -P version from the early 1960's, made by CTS of Paducah. It had a square magnet. I'm pretty sure this is the one that Bob Crites specified as his target woofer when he asked Eminence to custom make them for him. I'm sure Michael can verify this for the curious.

 

Those square magnet K33's had the best bass response in my Klipsch MWMs (which were designed for that woofer anyhow). The K43's I removed from said MWMs went into my LaScalas, where I discovered that Roy Delgado was right about the higher BL product "tilt" towards the higher frequencies of that woofer "mating up" better with the factory K400/K55/AA with new film capacitors.

 

This evolved into my discovery of the Kappa 15C as the "best bang for the buck" new replacement in a LaScala to yield BETTER midrange detail in the band of the LS bin. However, it did "thin out" the low end a bit, just like the K43 did, so I always recommended using a Subwoofer anyhow, so only improvements came out of the compromise.

After rereading the cornwall 2.0 thread i need to first double check that my 3015LF woofers are the 4ohm version.   Next, I need to try pushing the cabinets back into the corners to see if bass gets better/lower.   Also, looks like the 3015LF needs power to shine. I usually listen at 70db, so not alot of power pushed at that level.  I'm in the beginning stages of installing some french doors in the opening to the basement at the bottom of the steps to isolate me/music from the wife. She doesn't appreciate anything over 80db level.     Lastly, i will be ordering the Ayon spirit v tube amp which i think is 75w/ch, then i can really put the power to them.    Also,  looks like the Crites stamped basket woofers may be the best option without any other mods.   Thanks guys.

[Deang]

4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

This is why it's called DIY and the price you pay for not buying a Cornwall IV.

 

lmao. I thought the same yesterday and was like, "$6K doesn't sound THAT bad".

[ClaudeJ1]

4 hours ago, mopardave said:

After rereading the cornwall 2.0 thread i need to first double check that my 3015LF woofers are the 4ohm version.   Next, I need to try pushing the cabinets back into the corners to see if bass gets better/lower.   Also, looks like the 3015LF needs power to shine. I usually listen at 70db, so not alot of power pushed at that level.  I'm in the beginning stages of installing some french doors in the opening to the basement at the bottom of the steps to isolate me/music from the wife. She doesn't appreciate anything over 80db level.     Lastly, i will be ordering the Ayon spirit v tube amp which i think is 75w/ch, then i can really put the power to them.    Also,  looks like the Crites stamped basket woofers may be the best option without any other mods.   Thanks guys.

You can split the off woofer section and BI-AMP with your existing passive networks. The link below is the best money I ever spent on an amplifier based on the TI chip with a gain potentiometer. It wins the best "bang for buck" of 2021. All you need is 2 Y connectors to split and feed the music signal to the bass and treble amps. You'll have to install some additional Red and Black connections in the rear, but this is why you are DIY, right?

 

This is a much better/easier solution than changing Autoformer settings and Capacitor values. For only 80 Bux and change for the Y connectors and Speaker Input connections, you improve everything.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CJZGT6H?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-ypp-rep_ypp_rep_k1_1_6&amp&crid=3BEEDXAU3O5JB&amp&sprefix=aiyima

 

My most REVEALING system is in the basement All horns with horn sub/plate amp, 106 db/2.83 Volts Sensitivity use this amp for months and it sounds great. It should be able to handle the Woofer duties with ease. Once you have upped the Woofer drive by 2-3 db SEPARATELY from the top end, you should be all set. 

[mopardave]

6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

You can split the off woofer section and BI-AMP with your existing passive networks. The link below is the best money I ever spent on an amplifier based on the TI chip with a gain potentiometer. It wins the best "bang for buck" of 2021. All you need is 2 Y connectors to split and feed the music signal to the bass and treble amps. You'll have to install some additional Red and Black connections in the rear, but this is why you are DIY, right?

 

This is a much better/easier solution than changing Autoformer settings and Capacitor values. For only 80 Bux and change for the Y connectors and Speaker Input connections, you improve everything.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CJZGT6H?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-ypp-rep_ypp_rep_k1_1_6&amp&crid=3BEEDXAU3O5JB&amp&sprefix=aiyima

 

My most REVEALING system is in the basement All horns with horn sub/plate amp, 106 db/2.83 Volts Sensitivity use this amp for months and it sounds great. It should be able to handle the Woofer duties with ease. Once you have upped the Woofer drive by 2-3 db SEPARATELY from the top end, you should be all set. 

Thanks Claude.  Really dont want to bi amp my system.  A bit too involved for me.  I would rather try a woofer swap.  I was just listening to the system again at 75-80db levels and as the mid and highs were very clear and articulate, the low and mid base seemed there, but lacking at that volume.  I think you are correct when you say the 3015LF would work nice at disco levels(100+).  The base is very clean and controlled sounding.   I like the mid base my old Heresy's have, that mid base punch in your gut.    I like to feel my music as well as listen to it, but not at ear bleed levels.    

[geezin']

Sort of on topic but different. Is the Crites Style D considered a CornScala? Anyone with personal experience?

[ClaudeJ1]

13 hours ago, mopardave said:

Thanks Claude.  Really dont want to bi amp my system.  A bit too involved for me.  I would rather try a woofer swap.  I was just listening to the system again at 75-80db levels and as the mid and highs were very clear and articulate, the low and mid base seemed there, but lacking at that volume.  I think you are correct when you say the 3015LF would work nice at disco levels(100+).  The base is very clean and controlled sounding.   I like the mid base my old Heresy's have, that mid base punch in your gut.    I like to feel my music as well as listen to it, but not at ear bleed levels.    

Based and just words here, it appears you have yet to reduce your "top end" Horns' output low enough. It's ALL speaker designs are relative to the woofer output, which always needs the most power to operate. It's a question of Balance in a Real ROOM, which your DIY speakers have yet to achieve. So you should have another GO at that further high end reduction before you try other woofers. But hey, it's YOUR time and money, trying to please your Ears!