Deang Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I refuse to believe it sounds better than that beautiful amp you built and posted about here a year ago. Certainly a different presentation -- but not "better". Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 was that for me dean? or chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 This promise sound appealing. I already have a nice PAS3 and ST-70 the $600 of new guts in the PAS3 case seems like a good value if this is true. http://www.curcioaudio.com/pasdes_3.htm I've read the stock PAS3 with minor mods isn't as good as the Bottlehead but this leveraged DIY kit is supposed to better $3k pres? It's hard to find a tube pre with phono for under $1k. I guess the Bottlehead combo, AES-3 & AES phono, maybe Rogue Audio 66 and a vintage Audio Research are options in this range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I had this thread bookmarked to help me with my future pramp purchase, and the time has come. I would prefer to get a 6SN7 based preamp with line & phono for my DRDs. Since the DRDs left a big dent in my wallet, I would like to consider something for around $500. Can this be done? Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Kudret, unfortunately the Pantheon is no longer in production by Jeff, but it can be done potentially within your $500 budget if you are handy and aesthetics are not on the top of the list of criteria. USED Wright gear is always a good play ... with a little luck, you can come close to your budget, but most of the time Wright gear is scarfed up in nanoseconds on Audiogon, etc. It's nicely discounted USED, but rarely are there "steal deals". I'd vote Wright at the end of the day, unless you can do a Pantheon (sans phono section). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Thanks for your suggestions Chris. I really prefer something with phono, and Wright seems like an excellent choice. I could place a wanted ad on AudiogoN, but it will be taugh to find one for around $500? I haven't seen any lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 You are not going to be able get a 6SN7 based preamp with phono for $500. This puts you in AE-3 territory, and not much further. Of course, this is not a bad thing at all! I have a nice 6SN7 unit for sale at your $500 mark, but alas -- no phono. It will however completely crush the basic AE-3 in sonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Here is a NOSValves restored vintage pre-amp WITH PHONO that will be for sale well under $500....I haven't even picked it up yet but I'm pretty sure I will be selling it....probably for $350. HF-85 Completely rebuilt with Russian Film and foil capacitors Phono section rebuilt with Kiwame resistors All new electrolyte's I have a Scott 355 with new caps and I only need one pre-amp. A Rogue Audio 66 is a 6SN7 w/Phono for $650. Magnum around $800. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1070232824 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Wow, those pieces will sure look nice with those Welborne DRDs. BTW, the Rogue 66 is 6922 based, not 6SN7. Also, the Rogue Magnum, which is 6SN7 based, comes in between $1500 and $2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Rogues sure look pretty, but Magnum for ~$2000 is well beyond my budget. I'll be selling some of my Scotts and Fishers soon to raise funds for a Wright Sound WLA12a, in case I get lucky. What is a fair price for this preamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 ---------------- On 10/10/2003 11:10:15 PM Kudret wrote: Rogues sure look pretty, but Magnum for ~$2000 is well beyond my budget. I'll be selling some of my Scotts and Fishers soon to raise funds for a Wright Sound WLA12a, in case I get lucky. What is a fair price for this preamp? ---------------- There is that chinese 6SN7 SRPP preamp to that Dean bought recently. Why not take this with an external phono. This would give plenty of flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I was hoping to get a 2-in-1 unit. I've got too many components, not enough space (my HT is setup at the same place) and not enough outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 To be honest, you are not going to find too many great preamps in the $500 range with a phono stage built in without going used from the 70s-80 when phono was more common. Yeah, there are a few options here. One of my favorites, and Jeff has heard it, is the Cary SLP-70 with phono and external power supply. See the unit I sold last year below. It has a 6SL7 line stage with a 6SN7 Cathode follower and a 12AX7 phono. In a review I have posted online, the Cary SLP-70 bests the MFA Magus, another quality pre back then (Bruce Moore too). This is one of THE sleepers of the preamp world in my opinion, almost TOO asleep as they are more rare then hens teeth on the used market. When they do come up, you have to make sure it's the model WITH the phono. The model with the optional external supply was the best. I sold this pre to a friend of Jeff's for $675 or so. Hell, I dont even think he has a phono! But it's an amazingly musical little preamp and the last one they made using the better sounding octals until the SLP-98. MY current preamp is a full modified version of the SLP-70 with everthing but the kitchen sink thrown in. You can compare the two right here: The SLP-70 above has a MASSIVE power supply with more filtering than many power amps and a very nice MIT RTX film foil & SOLEN Bypass (in the Silver case at top rear). It also has Kimber jacks, all MIT Multicaps, Kimber silver wiring to volume/phono/CD, bypassed balance, and a TKD Stepped Attenuator (hell, that alone was 2/3 the total of your pricepoint). difference? Yep. Quieter, blacker background, noticable more extension in bass, and more articulate. Then again, I would take that stock SLP-70 in a second for a great deal. Other options in that range with a phono are Audio Research SP-6 and the SP-8. I have never been a diddly-doo lover of Audio Research preamps but if choosing one, these are two of the best Audio Research. There is currently an SP-6e (the last model revision) on Audiogon in the $6-- range if I recall. There might be a later SP-8 too. Currently on Audiogon, there arent a ton of options below 1k with a phono. There is a Conrad Johnson PV10B (the better version of that model) WITH the phono stage. This is a nice, airy, open preamp but a bit more tube sounding in that CJ way. I have heard this several times but NOT the phono section, which is reportedly better than the line stage. CJ preamps are musical but on the darker side of the spectrum. Still.... I thought this ok. My stock SLP-70 was more open. Finding a quality new pre with a phono stage under 1K is much tougher. The Wright Sound WPL-20 is an option as mentioned. But they are RARE used and over your price point. The sad thing is that I think the preamp is one of THE MOST important keys to a good system as a mediocre or average pre can take all the advantage of your great SET amp down to GREAT level, not reaching sublime. You just cant underestimate importance a quality preamp makes, and a good tube line stage is VERY important. I think the DRD 2A3 is sensitive enough to run a passive preamp, and that is the cheapest option to good sound, but not the ultimate as I think you lose a bit of bloom and midrange/lower end drive. Still, it's FAR better than a mediocre line stage, which there are plenty. I think Dean's preamp is the best buy right now in preamps. And if you notice, there is a McCormick Micro Phono Drive on Audiogon for $175, this a nice little unit. Trouble is, you are talking two pieces here. I'll keep my eye out for something if it strikes me. Take a look at Audiogon and at some of the pointers above to see. kh EDIT: I just actually re-read some things in this thread and realized I said a lot of the above in another post in the very same thread. At least the Audiogon references are up to date. Another option is Dodd Audio. Gary apparently makes all sorts of tube gear a very reasonable prices and does have a 6SN7 based pre (here is a proto-type below). Drop him a mail and perhaps he can add a phono stage, but you are probably talking nearer $1000, though who knows. I dont even know how much that prototype is, but I know he has a few tube pres in the $500 range. It's worth a shot. Gary's email: gldodd@comcast.net. EDIT 2: OK, I just forgot one more option, an option I wrote about in another preamp post. The Consonance Basie II which DOES now have a phono stage. I have never heard it but many preferred it to a tweaked Bottlehead Foreplay. It's an opton and not that expensive in kit form. http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/basie_full.jpg Please see this VERY interesting page on the BASIE MK II with pics and mods. http://www.triode-systems.com/basieII.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Kelly, killer post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Kelly's SLP70 is very musical, and has a nice sense of refinement, not a huge Cary fan per se, but will say this pre-amp adds a richness to the overall sound that is worth noting. There IS a Cary SLP74 with phono stage on auction at Audiogon, with a stretch on the $500 limit it might be worth considering. Here's my favorite Cary Audio article with SLP74 pictured. If you're willing to bring up the Audiogon classifieds daily, some good stuff will eventually pop up. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Lord, I cringe when I see the pictures along with that Cary article. Those ole burgundty plastic blinds behind Dennis are a sight for sore eyes. Indeed. Engineers, as a whole, have some of the worst taste known to mankind and Dennis and company are there to hold up the stereotype. For another frightening vision, take a look at the extra shots and the builders of some of those fine Cary products. I bought mine in 91 when it was just Kirk, Dennis, and a few other die-hards. Now it looks like they put a sign out that said, "Free Pizza and fun with electric wand! Come inside!" Heh... Yeah, well it's early this morn and I was up at 4:30am On the Cary SLP-74 front, it's one of the few Cary's that I dont really get all fired up about. I know they sure didnt have this model for long as I remember. I wouldnt go that high on the price personally. Edster had that model at home and found it dark sounding. It's not a model I ever recommend really but if it popped up at $500 with phono, it's an option. I just think the other Carys have more going for them. I dont think there is hardly a thing written about the 74 in the press really. Edmond got his SLP-90 for a STEAL - I found the ad and he jumped on it. All the SLP series can have a phono stage added, btw. There is a Rogue 66 w/phono on Audiogon, too. But, I am not sure how the 66 sounds as I have only read things about it. Kudret, where are you, freak? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 what about the Dynaco series - how do they sound or rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 In stock form, I've read they're pretty noisy. He apparently has a nice vinyl setup, and maybe a better thing for him might be to use something like the Creek passive just to control volume, but land a nice phono unit for his vinyl rig. The Creek is small and unobtrusive, and sure wouldn't take up much shelf space. -- a world of compromises here with any choice considering the budget constraints, but still, he might get more mileage from focusing on the vinyl end of this. Good preamp thread, but something that might be discussed is not just the differences applied to the signature depending on the tubes used, but the circuit. I've only heard the 6SN7 in SRPP, and while Kelly says the 6SN7 is "atmospheric", In the context of SRPP -- I actually think of it as being a more "direct" kind of sound. Not in the sense of bright, but in the sense of immediecy. Now, with the SL-90, using the 12AU7's and a cathode follower circuit, I definitely would apply the word "atmospheric" -- a larger soundstage, going wall to wall , top to bottom, and coming forward just a bit. My experience with the 6SN7 so far (in SRPP) shows that it does have more back to front imaging, pushes things closer to the listening position -- but doesn't really fill all the empty spaces in the room as well (height and width, like the SL-90, SF Line 1, and Companion). I do believe the two 6SN7 SRPPs I have head so far, sounded cleaner somehow, probably more due in part to the directness of the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 What an excellent post kelly, thank you so much. I had my eyes on the cary SLP 74 on AudiogoN that Are Friends Electric mentioned. It's already $800 and still 11hrs left. It's apparent that I'll have to increase my budget. Iwon't be getting my DRDs before Christmas, so I'll keep looking. Thanks again. kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Kudret: That PAT4 I mentioned is so cheap, and could maybe work OK until there is a means towards something a bit more high-end, at least in a tactile and visual sense. They are kind of 'funky' little preamps, but sound very good for such a low cost. They don't have silky smooth rotation to the controls, or a satisfyingly positive and dampened Nikon-F-shutter-like clunk to the switches, but they are great; and for my cruddy high frequency hearing, really good. And I just realized I already mentioned some of this in an email early this morning! I have been increasingly impressed with Cary/AES stuff, even though I have some friends who seem to really dislike it for other reasons. It can't be denied that they (Had & Co.)make some beautiful looking and sounding equipment. Wolfram's AES-AE-1 was wired with such care and precision! Anyway, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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