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Do you need a horn subwoofer for your Klipschorn/ Lascala home theater?


Tom05
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Thanks for the info Tom05! 

 

 

21 hours ago, Tom05 said:

No , you do not. But that’s not to say that I have anything against going with a horn subwoofer either . The Klipschorn is a different animal when it comes to subwoofers ,  because it puts out arguably some of the best low bass available down to 40 hz or so ,and it does this with very high output . So what to do? Well I’ll tell you what you don’t want to do , don’t crossover your Klipschorn, at 90 hz 😳cause you just lost some of the best bass known to mankind. If you can crossover at 40 hz , much much better, but in my view the very best solution is to run the Klipschorn full range sending all LFE to left and right Klipschorn  and a duplicate pre out signal to your subwoofer setup . With this arrangement the subwoofer augments the low bass from the lowest frequency to where the Klipschorn naturally rolls off ,or a bit more if desired ( using the subwoofer variable crossover dial). A simple first or second order filter can be incorporated into the speakers at 20-30 hz or so , if your concerned about them not being able to handle the  LF . My experience is that they can handle full range no problem.  ( in a home theater application )This set up allows you to retain all the snap and slam that the K-horns give you (and quality). And to just simply add to the lowest octave that needs help. I’ve experimented with this stuff endlessly,and if you want the biggest slam try it . For reference I’m using 4 HSU tn1220 subs in one rear corner ,500 watts per sub.

 

 

 

 

 

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No, you don't NEED to add a horn subwoofer to accompany your La Scalas, but you'll be pleased if you do.

 

Adding a horn loaded subwoofer (a Bill Fitzmaurice-designed THTLP) was a substantial and positive improvement to the sound of my La Scalas. So good, in fact, that I'll soon be adding a second THTLP.

 

Prior to the THTLP, I tried:

no subwoofer (OK, but disappointing bass),

a low-end Klipsch subwoofer (only slightly better than nothing), and then

an SVS SB1000 Pro subwoofer (a very good unit, which sounded OK, but just couldn't keep pace with the La Scalas)

 

I built the THTLP based on comments from this forum; I'd never seen or heard one. I'm very pleased with it. Building it ended up costing about 25% more than buying the SB1000 Pro.

 

 

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Btw I built a horn subwoofer years back the one with the eminence 12 inch. And it worked excellent, the one I made was 3 db down at 25 hz, I think . Maybe smaller than what you guys have , lost it during the divorce when my dads basement flooded along with my marantz 2270 ,went with what I could afford at the time , and never looked back , cause it works every bit as good as the horn.( 4 tn1220 in common corner 500 watts per sub) Keeps  up   with the Klipschorns with Lascala center Quartet and Heresy surrounds , FWIW I used to think the same way , that’s why I wrote this.

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42 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

Lots of people crossover there LFE  to subwoofer at 90 hz , for years there was no other option .when you do this you better have one hell of a sub or , won’t begin to keep up. As I said bad move for the K-horn. Horn sub works , but as I say there are alternatives that will work.

I'm interested in the discussion about where to crossover to a subwoofer, particularly as it pertains to La Scalas.

 

I've been playing with how my subwoofer is set.

1) I understand that the general rule of thumb is 80 Hz, and that this is what's used for, say, THX

2) The YPAO (like Audyssey) on my receiver likes to set the crossover at 80 Hz (and a couple of times at 60 Hz)

3) Because I've heard that:

    a) the La Scala stops acting like a horn at about 104 Hz, and

    b) the La Scala pretty much runs out of bass around 50Hz

   I've tended to set the crossover around 100Hz or 110Hz and to run the speakers at full (i.e., bass is sent out the LFE at that frequency, but all frequencies are still sent to the 

   La Scalas

 

I know that I have some challenges with my room and speaker placement that need to be worked out. Thus far, I think those problems are masking the affects of different crossover frequencies.

 

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7 hours ago, Dave MacKay said:

I'm interested in the discussion about where to crossover to a subwoofer, particularly as it pertains to La Scalas.

 

I've been playing with how my subwoofer is set.

1) I understand that the general rule of thumb is 80 Hz, and that this is what's used for, say, THX

2) The YPAO (like Audyssey) on my receiver likes to set the crossover at 80 Hz (and a couple of times at 60 Hz)

3) Because I've heard that:

    a) the La Scala stops acting like a horn at about 104 Hz, and

    b) the La Scala pretty much runs out of bass around 50Hz

   I've tended to set the crossover around 100Hz or 110Hz and to run the speakers at full (i.e., bass is sent out the LFE at that frequency, but all frequencies are still sent to the 

   La Scalas

 

I know that I have some challenges with my room and speaker placement that need to be worked out. Thus far, I think those problems are masking the affects of different crossover frequencies.

 

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6 hours ago, Tom05 said:

Hi Dave, I’m assuming these are main left right speakers. I’d try running them full range as I described in my first post. That would allow you to use every thing that the Lascala can provide, you would just be adding  what is missing ,and not taking anything away .Those Lascala’s have very high clean output way below 100 to110 hz , so you crossing over that high your sub has to make up for it ,and it just can’t begin to. Forget Audyssey , a manual setup is always better, stops acting like a horn at 104 that’s not  relevant . Also a 100 hz crossover point is 3 db down at 100 and down a few db at 120 and 1 db down at 130or whatever, that’s lots of bass to give away .Lascala’s are unique high output speakers , the setup rules are different than for ordinary speakers. For starters experiment at 60 hz 40 hz   absolutely not 100 or 80 whatever is easy to try . What subwoofer are you using is this for stereo or home theater? 

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2 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

Hi Dave, I’m assuming these are main left right speakers. I’d try running them full range as I described in my first post. That would allow you to use every thing that the Lascala can provide, you would just be adding  what is missing ,and not taking anything away .Those Lascala’s have very high clean output way below 100 to110 hz , so you crossing over that high your sub has to make up for it ,and it just can’t begin to. Forget Audyssey , a manual setup is always better, stops acting like a horn at 104 that’s not  relevant . Also a 100 hz crossover point is 3 db down at 100 and down a few db at 120 and 1 db down at 130or whatever, that’s lots of bass to give away .Lascala’s are unique high output speakers , the setup rules are different than for ordinary speakers. For starters experiment at 60 hz 40 hz   absolutely not 100 or 80 whatever is easy to try . What subwoofer are you using is this for stereo or home theater? 🤓

Yes, the La Scalas are the left and right speakers in my stereo (2 channel + subwoofer) system. I've paired them with one THTLP horn-loaded subwoofer (and will soon add a second).

 

I believe it was from your posts that I thought to run the speakers full range and not cut them off at the crossover frequency.

 

I don't want to through away lots of bass. 🙂 I'll experiment with lower crossover points and keep the speakers full range.

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21 minutes ago, Dave MacKay said:

Yes, the La Scalas are the left and right speakers in my stereo (2 channel + subwoofer) system. I've paired them with one THTLP horn-loaded subwoofer (and will soon add a second).

 

I believe it was from your posts that I thought to run the speakers full range and not cut them off at the crossover frequency.

 

I don't want to through away lots of bass. 🙂 I'll experiment with lower crossover points and keep the speakers full range.

Ok , well you’re in good shape for subwoofer then,  I would try the 60hz or 80 hz see what you like , if your still not happy try the full range .Keep experimenting with it until your happy, I’ve found that its very important to have all settings optimized for best bass things like phase settings extremely important ! When you ad your second subwoofer they must be in phase with each other , and also in phase with mains. Most people don’t have there stuff set up right. Not saying that you don’t , probably know all this stuff already. 

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5 hours ago, Tom05 said:

 Another thought, you may prefer the sound of the bass from the Lascala’s  over the horn sub , I did, this is another reason why you may want to run full range as to limit the horn subs  

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Hello, how are you, I would like to know if someone could help me solve a problem.  I am going to buy some KLIPSCHORN manufactured on September 24, 1957, but I would like to know that Driver had the wooden horn?.... brand: Klipsch or University SAHF..., I can put the photos, on the Stickers of the cabinet it says SAHF, I need know which was the genuine, original for Sep 1957 .... thank you very much

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I'm confused @Tom05 are you saying you prefer completely horn loaded speakers except for when it comes to subwoofers ?

I thought and I could be wrong , the lower the frequency the more you benefit from horn loading.

5 hours ago, Tom05 said:

went with what I could afford at the time , and never looked back , cause it works every bit as good as the horn.( 4 tn1220 in common corner 500 watts per sub) Keeps  up   with the Klipschorns with Lascala center Quartet and Heresy surrounds , FWIW I used to think the same way , that’s why I wrote this.

The  reason you wrote this is the same reason I am replying .You are the first person I have ever heard have this opinion .

In my experience people who prefer all horn loaded speakers , prefer the sound quality of horn loaded subs once they experience them.

The size or other factors maybe not so much ... but sound quality always until now.

You are entitled to your opinion  but I believe your opinion is more the exception than the norm and cerainly not something you should be professing to less experienced listeners.

 

 

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