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LaScala for this room


svberger

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4 hours ago, Desert Noises said:

You'd probably be hard pressed to discern any difference between the Daytons and Sonicaps. I've used both and can't tell a difference in the sound.

So I recently did A+B comparisons between Crites built Types AA crossovers and stock Type AA crossovers with JEM caps on Belles. The Crites crossover with the sonicaps were significantly brighter compared to the JEM.

 

We then compared stock Type AA crossovers with Dayton Audio capacitors against stock Type AA crossovers with JEM caps on La Scalas. The Daytons were a little duller compared to the JEMs. I'm not trying to influence any brand over another, just saying my experiences. There's nothing wrong with going cheap with the Daytons.

 

In the end, you probably won't be comparing them to other caps like I did.

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16 minutes ago, dtr20 said:

So I recently did A+B comparisons between Crites built Types AA crossovers and stock Type AA crossovers with JEM caps on Belles. The Crites crossover with the sonicaps were significantly brighter compared to the JEM.

 

We then compared stock Type AA crossovers with Dayton Audio capacitors against stock Type AA crossovers with JEM caps on La Scalas. The Daytons were a little duller compared to the JEMs. I'm not trying to influence any brand over another, just saying my experiences. There's nothing wrong with going cheap with the Daytons.

 

In the end, you probably won't be comparing them to other caps like I did.

Cool review. Ultimately what it comes down to and remaining true to voltage transfer curve. 

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1 hour ago, KT88 said:

I am happily using Crites AA. But only because I changed to air coils on my original xover 16 years ago and I forgot where I stored the original ones. That was a mistake to think, air coils would be an enhancement. long story short I found the original coils some months ago when moving with my office and I was happy about this „gift“. Unfortunately the bag with the originals coils was put in the wrong place together with other stuff that went. So my joy was of short duration and changed into sadness.

The Crites AA I have bought in 2009 and therefore I have a replacement in use since that time.

 

To your thoughts, coils and the autoformer of your original AA should last forever. The only difference when purchasing a Crites AA would be the type of caps. Nothing against the Crites built quality, all is the best. But in your case you would purchase what you already have (the nuts of the diodes were to loosen easier:). And the only difference, the caps of the Crites AA I have changed against types which are closer to the original ones.

Great info! Thanks again!

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7 minutes ago, svberger said:

Boy there are sure a lot of folks online who really hate these speakers😅

 

Makes me love them all the more.

 

I've loved them ever since I borrowed some LS clones built by DJK for P.A. use, in the early '80s. I finally got a real pair around 2006.

 

Simply amazing speakers.

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54 minutes ago, svberger said:

Boy there are sure a lot of folks online who really hate these speakers😅

 

 

 

Makes me love them all the more.

My pair had me scratching my head and pulling my hair out trying to make them sound right. I tried all the upgrades and thought they sounded better after each one. But a persistent annoying sound in the mid bass kept bugging me. Finally, I returned everything to stock and built a pair of AL-3 crossovers, which are designed for my specific drivers and configuration. My La Scalas are from 1988. 
 

With the original drivers and AL-3, my La Scalas have redeemed themselves. They sound correct now and I’m really enjoying their sound. I’m not going to mess with them anymore. I’m a happy camper.

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7 minutes ago, Desert Noises said:

My pair had me scratching my head and pulling my hair out trying to make them sound right. I tried all the upgrades and thought they sounded better after each one. But a persistent annoying sound in the mid bass kept bugging me. Finally, I returned everything to stock and built a pair of AL-3 crossovers, which are designed for my specific drivers and configuration. My La Scalas are from 1988. 
 

With the original drivers and AL-3, my La Scalas have redeemed themselves. They sound correct now and I’m really enjoying their sound. I’m not going to mess with them anymore. I’m a happy camper.

I know there are a few select folks here and other forums that actually like them. Stock, even, or with perhaps the most minimal of update/mod. I wonder what it is that separates us from the masses who can't stand them? What do we have in common?

 

Fun to belong to a group that is seemingly so exclusive.

 

 

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Haters are going to hate. Chevy hates Fords, Fords hate Mopars........

Most that dont like LS have never heard LS. Some never heard them done right either. 

I have never had anyone listen to my LS or Belles and not agree that they were the best speakers they ever heard. 

I've heard better but only cuz I've heard Khorns

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1 minute ago, MookieStl said:

Haters are going to hate. Chevy hates Fords, Fords hate Mopars........

Most that dont like LS have never heard LS. Some never heard them done right either. 

I have never had anyone listen to my LS or Belles and not agree that they were the best speakers they ever heard. 

 

That's my thought. That they just haven't used the proper gear, had the proper room, proper placement, etc.

 

But in the end, there's no accounting for personal taste. I do know that some of the folks who have indicated their dislike for them have gear that I would never want to own in a million years. Big black shiny speakers, lots of modern stuff, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just not my cup o' tea.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Desert Noises said:

My pair had me scratching my head and pulling my hair out trying to make them sound right. I tried all the upgrades and thought they sounded better after each one. But a persistent annoying sound in the mid bass kept bugging me. Finally, I returned everything to stock and built a pair of AL-3 crossovers, which are designed for my specific drivers and configuration. My La Scalas are from 1988. 
 

With the original drivers and AL-3, my La Scalas have redeemed themselves. They sound correct now and I’m really enjoying their sound. I’m not going to mess with them anymore. I’m a happy camper.

In addition to being a fabulous sounding speaker ,the  Lascala also offers  great value in there uniqueness ,  (how many other speakers are really in the same class as these?) .Lascala just plain kicks *** ! . I think  people would be doing themselves a great favor to just leave the Lascala bone stock. I’ve been listening to people for  30 + years explain how Khorns and Lascala’s sound honky ,shouty ,strident , forward ,harsh ,like cupped hands and on and on ,as if they are wild cats that must be tamed , it’s all bs . But people read this stuff and many believe that there must be something to this nonsense. I believe that much of the criticism comes from people that have never really heard these speakers, or have been listening to  one’s that have been modified , or maybe they just want the mighty Klipsch Lascala to sound more like a Bose cube.🤷 That’s what I think anyway.🤓

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On 1/20/2022 at 7:59 PM, KT88 said:

which was not intended when the circuit was developed

I think it’s truly a combination of placement and supporting gear. Many people remember hearing horns once back in the 70s or 80s with a cheap receiver in a showroom or somebody’s basement and thus the opinion was formed. And they carry it with them always.

 

You can’t just plop horns down in a room and hook ‘em up to anything you have laying around and get great results. Oh you might get ok sound, but you won’t hear what they are capable of. And remember that some people have a higher standard of good sound than others. Horns require you to put the work in to get it right. And Lascalas can sing to you, or run you out of the room. Details matter.

 

Shakey

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12 hours ago, Tom05 said:

In addition to being a fabulous sounding speaker ,the  Lascala also offers  great value in there uniqueness ,  (how many other speakers are really in the same class as these?) .Lascala just plain kicks *** ! . I think  people would be doing themselves a great favor to just leave the Lascala bone stock. I’ve been listening to people for  30 + years explain how Khorns and Lascala’s sound honky ,shouty ,strident , forward ,harsh ,like cupped hands and on and on ,as if they are wild cats that must be tamed , it’s all bs . But people read this stuff and many believe that there must be something to this nonsense. I believe that much of the criticism comes from people that have never really heard these speakers, or have been listening to  one’s that have been modified , or maybe they just want the mighty Klipsch Lascala to sound more like a Bose cube.🤷 That’s what I think anyway.🤓

I agree and I have learned some important lessons during my past few years of La Scala ownership. The first mistake I made was throwing out the original AL crossovers before listening to them and getting an idea of the original sound. Instead, I installed a new reproduction AA crossover that wasn't designed for the K-55M. Then I upgraded each driver trying to achieve optimum sound. Looking back, I should have just ordered an AL-3 and called it a day.

 

I knew something was up when I built a pair of Clonewalls and put all of the original drivers from my La Scalas in those. My Clonewalls have the B-2 crossovers. I listened to the Clonewalls and wondered why they sounded so much better than my La Scalas! What the heck? After trying different crossovers (A, AA, A4500) and lowering the mids by another 3dB, I still wasn't satisfied with their sound. Then I did more reading and research and decided that I had to return the La Scalas to stock and use a crossover that was specifically designed for the drivers my speakers originally came with. Just to get a baseline. I was skeptical, but after listening for less than a minute I knew they sounded right, the sound I was searching for all along.

 

Now, when I compare my Clonewalls (CW1526CF, A55G, K77M, B-2) to my stock 1988 La Scalas with AL-3 I'm getting a similar basic Klipsch sound, even though the two have a very different sound, if that makes any sense. Now I'm happy with both my Clonewalls and La Scalas.

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13 hours ago, Tom05 said:

In addition to being a fabulous sounding speaker ,the  Lascala also offers  great value in there uniqueness ,  (how many other speakers are really in the same class as these?) .Lascala just plain kicks *** ! . I think  people would be doing themselves a great favor to just leave the Lascala bone stock. I’ve been listening to people for  30 + years explain how Khorns and Lascala’s sound honky ,shouty ,strident , forward ,harsh ,like cupped hands and on and on ,as if they are wild cats that must be tamed , it’s all bs . But people read this stuff and many believe that there must be something to this nonsense. I believe that much of the criticism comes from people that have never really heard these speakers, or have been listening to  one’s that have been modified , or maybe they just want the mighty Klipsch Lascala to sound more like a Bose cube.🤷 That’s what I think anyway.🤓

 

Brothers from another mother you and me are mate.

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12 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

I think it’s truly a combination of placement and supporting gear. Many people remember hearing horns once back in the 70s or 80s with a cheap receiver in a showroom or somebody’s basement and thus the opinion was formed. And they carry it with them always.

 

You can’t just plop horns down in a room and hook ‘em up to anything you have laying around and get great results. Oh you might get ok sound, but you won’t hear what they are capable of. And remember that some people have a higher standard of good sound than others. Horns require you to put the work in to get it right. And Lascalas can sing to you, or run you out of the room. Details matter.

 

Shakey

No disagreement, but a slightly different personal viewpoint.  It's not as difficult as some might have somebody else believe. A reasonable size room, some decent corners or walls, and some quality amplification(which can, but doesn't have to cost a lot) will usually get it done. I'm not particularly anal about my set up, but I suppose after doing audio for as long as I have(5+ decades) I've come to learn a few things which have positive impact to my listening needs. As always, one can be as carried away with these things as they desire. I try not to. Get it to sound good to my ears, and be done with it.

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Just trying to explain why Lascala and horns in general are so polarizing.
In my experience, simply put, there are two approaches and ways of listening.
There are many people who like a familiar and "normal" sound. "Normal" should mean it is the sound that everyone "knows" from normal radiators. This sound can be quite good and it is often an imprint of the sound sensation.

We had a tube radio in the living room at my parents. I was maybe 4 or 5 years old. I always listened to music, school radio and radio plays with this radio. It wasn't a special radio, medium sized, mono, the kind you could find everywhere around 1964.

But...it had so many advantages that I liked so much as a little boy but without knowing why. It was a tube design. It had alnico speakers. It didn't have a crossover but what were called full range speakers. It was not closed but had a cardboard back with holes because of the heat of the tubes.

All this together had made such a good sound that I have internalized as a quasi reference to this day. Tubes, the absence of a crossover and Alnico speakers speak for themselves. The perforated cardboard back panel ensured that it had an open and airy very nice sound. Much clearer and with more speech intelligibility than the first cheap sealed so-called hi-fi boxes that came on the market 5 years later, driven by cheap sand amps.

 

Deep bass unlike a radio like this was unknown to me. Even though I appreciate a horn bass very much today. Therefore back to the Lascalas.


The Lascalas are different than my trip to the tube radio of my childhood. They polarize for a reason I understand in that way:
You can hear a horn like a Lascala from the "outside" or from the "inside." From the "outside", people may find it irritating because it sounds very different than a „normal“ radiated cone sound. From "inside" means that I have to give the horns time before my ears adapt to them. And suddenly hearing from the outside can turn into hearing from the inside. In this moment, reservations about the horn sound are suddenly gone. I listen "into the music".
Lascala are like a gate "into the music". Either someone steps inside the gate or someone stays outside the gate. My early childhood experience has enabled me to step through this gate because of the truth of the sound of the Lascala even if the old tube radio was a sound of a smaller radiator but it was a „guide“. Therefore of course, a Lascala sounds different than a 1960s tube radio. But in both cases, there is a truth associated with the sound.

 

Those who remain outside lament the otherness of the sound of the Lascalas or other horns. Of course, the amplifier must match the Lascala. Otherwise, even more people stay outside.
It is like a conundrum. I know the situation when friends are "outside" when listening to my Lascalas (or Tannoys) and two glasses of wine are enough when listening to the sound of the horns and they are inside. It's like a sudden opening, like a switch, not a slow getting used to. 

 

 

 

3EE721AE-AE83-483B-B6FA-3C09AC51DA39.png

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11 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Just trying to explain why Lascala and horns in general are so polarizing.
In my experience, simply put, there are two approaches and ways of listening.
There are many people who like a familiar and "normal" sound. "Normal" should mean it is the sound that everyone "knows" from normal radiators. This sound can be quite good and it is often an imprint of the sound sensation.

We had a tube radio in the living room at my parents. I was maybe 4 or 5 years old. I always listened to music, school radio and radio plays with this radio. It wasn't a special radio, medium sized, mono, the kind you could find everywhere around 1964.

But...it had so many advantages that I liked so much as a little boy but without knowing why. It was a tube design. It had alnico speakers. It didn't have a crossover but what were called full range speakers. It was not closed but had a cardboard back with holes because of the heat of the tubes.

All this together had made such a good sound that I have internalized as a quasi reference to this day. Tubes, the absence of a crossover and Alnico speakers speak for themselves. The perforated cardboard back panel ensured that it had an open and airy very nice sound. Much clearer and with more speech intelligibility than the first cheap sealed so-called hi-fi boxes that came on the market 5 years later, driven by cheap sand amps.

 

Deep bass unlike a radio like this was unknown to me. Even though I appreciate a horn bass very much today. Therefore back to the Lascalas.


The Lascalas are different than my trip to the tube radio of my childhood. They polarize for a reason I understand in that way:
You can hear a horn like a Lascala from the "outside" and from the "inside." From the "outside", people may find it irritating because it sounds very different. From "inside" means that I have to give the horns time before my ears adapt to them. And suddenly hearing from the outside can turn into hearing from the inside. In this moment, reservations about the horn sound are suddenly gone. I listen "into the music".
Lascala are like a gate "into the music". Either someone steps inside the gate or someone stays outside the gate. My early childhood experience has enabled me to step through this gate because of the truth of the sound even when it was a smaller radiator sound. Of course, a Lascala sounds different than a 1960s tube radio. But in both cases, there is a truth associated with the sound.

 

Those who remain outside lament the otherness of the sound of the Lascalas or other horns. Of course, the amplifier must match the Lascala. Otherwise, even more people stay outside.
It is like a conundrum. I know the situation when friends are "outside" when listening to my Lascalas (or Tannoys) and two glasses of wine are enough when listening to the sound of the horns and they are inside. It's like a sudden opening, like a switch, not a slow getting used to. 

 

 

 

3EE721AE-AE83-483B-B6FA-3C09AC51DA39.png

This is wonderful. Thanks.

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11 hours ago, svberger said:

This is wonderful. Thanks.

I have experienced the walk through the gate to emotional music (Lascala) listening even in both directions. A very subtle empathy may influence us when listening together with other people. With some a feeling of enjoyment and good sound can be shared and with other guys not so. It’s like you know with whom you like to listen together and with whom less so. Then I am sometimes "outside" of the musical experience myself and even the sound of the Lascalas can be less involving…as if I would listen with the ears of the „outsider“ and as if the Lascala is a stronger indicator than a normal radiator to show if something goes good or wrong. 

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20 hours ago, KT88 said:

Just trying to explain why Lascala and horns in general are so polarizing.
In my experience, simply put, there are two approaches and ways of listening.
There are many people who like a familiar and "normal" sound. "Normal" should mean it is the sound that everyone "knows" from normal radiators. This sound can be quite good and it is often an imprint of the sound sensation.

We had a tube radio in the living room at my parents. I was maybe 4 or 5 years old. I always listened to music, school radio and radio plays with this radio. It wasn't a special radio, medium sized, mono, the kind you could find everywhere around 1964.

But...it had so many advantages that I liked so much as a little boy but without knowing why. It was a tube design. It had alnico speakers. It didn't have a crossover but what were called full range speakers. It was not closed but had a cardboard back with holes because of the heat of the tubes.

All this together had made such a good sound that I have internalized as a quasi reference to this day. Tubes, the absence of a crossover and Alnico speakers speak for themselves. The perforated cardboard back panel ensured that it had an open and airy very nice sound. Much clearer and with more speech intelligibility than the first cheap sealed so-called hi-fi boxes that came on the market 5 years later, driven by cheap sand amps.

 

Deep bass unlike a radio like this was unknown to me. Even though I appreciate a horn bass very much today. Therefore back to the Lascalas.


The Lascalas are different than my trip to the tube radio of my childhood. They polarize for a reason I understand in that way:
You can hear a horn like a Lascala from the "outside" or from the "inside." From the "outside", people may find it irritating because it sounds very different than a „normal“ radiated cone sound. From "inside" means that I have to give the horns time before my ears adapt to them. And suddenly hearing from the outside can turn into hearing from the inside. In this moment, reservations about the horn sound are suddenly gone. I listen "into the music".
Lascala are like a gate "into the music". Either someone steps inside the gate or someone stays outside the gate. My early childhood experience has enabled me to step through this gate because of the truth of the sound of the Lascala even if the old tube radio was a sound of a smaller radiator but it was a „guide“. Therefore of course, a Lascala sounds different than a 1960s tube radio. But in both cases, there is a truth associated with the sound.

 

Those who remain outside lament the otherness of the sound of the Lascalas or other horns. Of course, the amplifier must match the Lascala. Otherwise, even more people stay outside.
It is like a conundrum. I know the situation when friends are "outside" when listening to my Lascalas (or Tannoys) and two glasses of wine are enough when listening to the sound of the horns and they are inside. It's like a sudden opening, like a switch, not a slow getting used to. 

 

 

 

3EE721AE-AE83-483B-B6FA-3C09AC51DA39.png

That is a an accurate observation. I always thought La Scala’s were just magical. but your explanation makes more sense. 

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