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LaScala for this room


svberger

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16 minutes ago, KT88 said:

I had this idea told yesterday here re the fuses instead of diodes for the home situation. Good to know that you have realized this solution, a true teenager protection😀 Where have you placed the fuse? in front of the total network or in front of the tweeter path within the network?

Before the crossover. Inline with the input protecting everything. The tweeter is the soft spot so it will work only on the tweeter just as well I suppose. In my case, experimenting as much as I do, I prefer to protect everything. Captain supplying a zener diode number I did some checking at mouser and those things are terrible expensive, $38 apiece these days vs a few cents for a fuse. 

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1 minute ago, henry4841 said:

Before the crossover. Inline with the input protecting everything. The tweeter is the soft spot so it will work only on the tweeter just as well I suppose. In my case, experimenting as much as I do, I prefer to protect everything. 

Thank you. It makes sense that the fuse is protecting the whole speaker and after thinking about it the remaining tweeter voltage should be too weak to blow such a fuse, or it must be a very sensitive one which I don‘t know if it exists at all?

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6 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Thank you. It makes sense that the fuse is protecting the whole speaker and after thinking about it the remaining tweeter voltage should be too weak to blow such a fuse, or it must be a very sensitive one which I don‘t know if it exists at all?

IMPORTANT  I made a mistake on kind of fuse. You want a fast blow fuse not a slow blow. Again FAST BLOW. I have never blown a 1 amp fast blow fuse listening to music but any transients such as on turn on or turn off will blow the fuse. Will not happen unless you have a problem with your amplifier.  Saved me money on a few occasions. 

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As I indicated earlier my understanding is PWK ordered the protection when bigger solid state amps became the norm and tweeters, under full lifetime replacement warranty we’re getting blown with alarming regularity and becoming a drain on profits. Unfortunately it is said that this protection was developed rapidly at the expense of the quality of performance. It was only when the alnico tweeter got replaced with the more durable ceramic version in the late 70’s I believe it was that this diode protection could be eliminated which is why later models like the ‘85 mentioned above is without it. 
 

Obviously there is a small amount of risk removing the protection so ultimately it’s a personal decision but it’s such an easy reversible experiment that I would urge anyone with a AA crossover to give it a try and listen conservatively for at least a short time. I think you’ll be surprised. 

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3 minutes ago, svberger said:

As I indicated earlier my understanding is PWK ordered the protection when bigger solid state amps became the norm and tweeters, under full lifetime replacement warranty we’re getting blown with alarming regularity and becoming a drain on profits. Unfortunately it is said that this protection was developed rapidly at the expense of the quality of performance. It was only when the alnico tweeter got replaced with the more durable ceramic version in the late 70’s I believe it was that this diode protection could be eliminated which is why later models like the ‘85 mentioned above is without it. 
 

Obviously there is a small amount of risk removing the protection so ultimately it’s a personal decision but it’s such an easy reversible experiment that I would urge anyone with a AA crossover to give it a try and listen conservatively for at least a short time. I think you’ll be surprised. 

I believe years later then mine had zener diodes in their AL crossovers. Mine were an exception for some reason. Cost Klipsch tweeters under warranty by not having them but to be fair they would never have blown with just me using them. I have since replaced the AL's with AA's. 

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I don’t solder so assuming it’s required to add fuses I’ll just accept the risk of no protection. Im quite sure as I indicated earlier that unless there is some sort of catastrophic failure with a piece of gear the tweeters will be fine. No teenagers left in my house. 

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Both the K55 and K77 are protected by crossover capacitors from any purely DC event like a SS amp shorting outputs putting rail voltage DC at the output. The woofer on the other hand isn't. Many of the speakers that were in a pro sound application that were pushed much harder compared to home audio use were seeing tweeter damage from the newer high powered transistor amplifiers. I suspect a lot of instability burning up tweeters with high frequency oscillations that are not even heard or the very harsh clipping of a high powered transistor amplifier. The high harmonic content from the clipping grossly increased power into the sensitive tweeter and poof. The diodes were a good AC clamping mechanism that when in house tested probably did a quick A/B listening test and concluded it worked like glue so ship them out.

 

Even if the increased distortion was known they could have felt it was an acceptable trade off for the protection.

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16 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

Even if the increased distortion was known they could have felt it was an acceptable trade off for the protection.

I'm guessing(and it's purely a guess backed with what little I've read on the situation)with all due respect to PWK and his company, that the decision to employ protection had everything to do with the bottom line and little to do with worrying what his customer base would hear. Especially  that segment that were playing stuff so loud that the tweeters were disintegrating.

 

I would've been perfectly happy with these speakers if I never learned about the effect of the diodes. But now I've been spoiled.

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Thanks for that info, but on the same site, there’s a statement that the Heritage Series speakers now have a 10-year warranty, which suggests that it may have been shorter before.

 

It seems odd that the indoor/outdoor speakers have a lifetime warranty, but maybe the profit margin on those is higher, or maybe they don’t expect many people to have either the receipt or the interest in the speakers after 15-20 years.

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1 minute ago, Islander said:

Thanks for that info, but on the same site, there’s a statement that the Heritage Series speakers now have a 10-year warranty, which suggests that it may have been shorter before.

 

It seems odd that the indoor/outdoor speakers have a lifetime warranty, but maybe the profit margin on those is higher, or maybe they don’t expect many people to have either the receipt or the interest in the speakers after 15-20 years.

Ah my error. I assumed indoor/outdoor covered all speakers.

 

Evidently in 2020 they changed from 5 to 10 years on the Heritage line.

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Cool how captainbeefheart's posting of his test results on this little mod on the Technical/Modifications forum has taken on a life of it's own. I wonder how many folks who have contributed to that thread that is mostly way over my head have actually tried this simple little trick?

 

Enjoying my LS's more then ever. Listened to a recorded concert of the Boston Symphony Orchestra last night and it was quite breathtaking on these speakers.

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On 1/16/2022 at 6:57 AM, Islander said:

Klipsch recommends that with Klipschorns, the minimum ceiling height should be 8-1/2 feet, and more is probably better.  Since they’re a tall speaker, with low ceilings the tweeter and squawker can be closer to the ceiling than to the floor, which is not ideal.  As well, do you have corners into which K-horns can fit tightly?

 

Those are the only restrictions that I’m aware of, other than that it takes a certain distance for the sound of the three drivers to integrate, so it’s best if you can sit at least 12-15 feet from them.  They’re definitely not for near-field listening.

 

So if your house satisfies those requirements, you’re all set for K-horns, but those rules can be restrictive enough that some K-horn fans will keep them in mind when looking for a house to buy, since many houses are not “Klipschorn friendly”.

 

That said, if you’re planning to move within a year or two, some K-horn fans would go ahead and buy them, knowing they’ll be in a more suitable room within a reasonable time.

 

Hope this is helpful.

I'm coming back to this because a local dealer friend of mine, who I trade with quite a bit and who supplied me with my Cornwalls now informs me that he may be coming into a beautiful pair of Khorns soon. I can't help but be interested so I took some measurements today and found out that they would have about 13 feet give or take separation in their respective corners. I sit about 12-14 feet away, depending on how far back I slide my couch. My ceilings are about 8 feet. So while the dimensions are perhaps not as optimum as could be, and larger would be better, I still think that they might work. The footprint is not that different then the LS's.  The advantage of course of even considering these is because they would be local and through a friend, so I could easily try them out before committing. I have to think with how successful the LS's have been that I would love the Khorns. In fact, I like the LS's so much, that I would probably end up using the Cornwalls, now in my second system, as part of a trade for the Khorns and keep the LS's for the second system. I can only imagine how great Khorns would sound with my MC30's.

 

As things evolve I'll be back

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1 hour ago, svberger said:

I'm coming back to this because a local dealer friend of mine, who I trade with quite a bit and who supplied me with my Cornwalls now informs me that he may be coming into a beautiful pair of Khorns soon. I can't help but be interested so I took some measurements today and found out that they would have about 13 feet give or take separation in their respective corners. I sit about 12-14 feet away, depending on how far back I slide my couch. My ceilings are about 8 feet. So while the dimensions are perhaps not as optimum as could be, and larger would be better, I still think that they might work. The footprint is not that different then the LS's.  The advantage of course of even considering these is because they would be local and through a friend, so I could easily try them out before committing. I have to think with how successful the LS's have been that I would love the Khorns. In fact, I like the LS's so much, that I would probably end up using the Cornwalls, now in my second system, as part of a trade for the Khorns and keep the LS's for the second system. I can only imagine how great Khorns would sound with my MC30's.

 

As things evolve I'll be back

I am very curious about your impressions with the KH. Good that you keep the LS at least for a while before you would make a final decision. Both, LS and KH have their special good sides, mainly deep full room filling controlled bass vs. the very good connection to the midrange horn.

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