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LaScala for this room


svberger

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I like this thread. Pipe foam is something that I could easily do if needed.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/125090-talk-to-me-khorn-owners-do-you-have-bad-corners-or-closed-backs/

 

"There's really no bad corners for Khorn's because they always sound good. It's that some corners are better than others....

If you think you have bad corners you will hear bad corners !"😁

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svberger, thanks for this thread—I too am about to make the transition from Cornwalls (1985, recapped with SoniCaps) to La Scalas (also ‘85, AL crossovers). 
 

La Scalas are in the garage, unfinished, waiting for me to learn, practice, and experiment with different finishes…only get one shot ;), but they are connected to a late model H/K receiver out there, no room treatment or correction, and now that I’ve replaced the blown tweeter diaphragms, sound sublime. Can’t wait to hear them with my good gear, in my corrected family room.

 

Anyway, lovely thread, and good luck with the Klipschorns.

 

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23 minutes ago, JohnW said:

svberger, thanks for this thread—I too am about to make the transition from Cornwalls (1985, recapped with SoniCaps) to La Scalas (also ‘85, AL crossovers). 
 

La Scalas are in the garage, unfinished, waiting for me to learn, practice, and experiment with different finishes…only get one shot ;), but they are connected to a late model H/K receiver out there, no room treatment or correction, and now that I’ve replaced the blown tweeter diaphragms, sound sublime. Can’t wait to hear them with my good gear, in my corrected family room.

 

Anyway, lovely thread, and good luck with the Klipschorns.

 

Cool John! Congrats on the LS's. If they have the same tweeter protection as the AA discussed above and particularly if you're finding any harshness out of the tweeter, give the little disconnect mod a shot. I bet you'll be really surprised.

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1 hour ago, svberger said:

Cool John! Congrats on the LS's. If they have the same tweeter protection as the AA discussed above and particularly if you're finding any harshness out of the tweeter, give the little disconnect mod a shot. I bet you'll be really surprised.

BTW which model year are your soon arriving KHs?

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25 minutes ago, KT88 said:

BTW which model year are your soon arriving KHs?

 

So to be clear, I'm not even sure any KH's are arriving. Yesterday I was contacted by my friend, who told me that he MIGHT be coming into a pair, and would I have any interest if so? I told him I was interested. He knows my place very well and he thinks that the room would work for them. I won't know until next week if they'll become a reality, and at that point I'll be able to provide more details as to which model, year, etc.

 

BTW, I rechecked the magnetic screw issue in the LS's, and lo and behold, they are both magnetic. I have removed them both and I will be replacing with non magnetic. Can't say the difference is as dramatic as removing the diode protection, but it was easy enough to do so why not? In perusing various threads last night I even found one where Bob Crites' found a similar screw in a picture of a members AA crossover and told him to check for it being magnetic and if so to remove/replace it. It was, and he did. So thanks again!

 

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15 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

I look at this thread and it just reinforces my opinion about the "original Jubilees - home version".

 

These are sometimes called the "rogue" speakers, more recently they are called the "underground" Jubilees. Basically, the (original) Jubilee bass bin with a K-402 horn (if space/money  is tight then substitute a K-510 horn). These cabinets would work in so many implementations. They do do not need to be tight in a corner, you are free to toe them in. They have a great spectral response, great efficiency, you name and they got it.

 

They sound good !!!!! I know since I have owned them (I have also owned and enjoyed K-Horns, La Scalas, Cornwalls, etc). 

 

They were affordable but not high on the cosmetic issues, but .......

 

Well, they are gone. You cannot get them any more. They had retailed for about $7 - 8k and they were a great deal. They are gone and replaced with something that costs about 5 times more. I am sure the replacement version sounds wonderful (even if the cosmetics are questionable (IMHO)). But they are so expensive and out of reach for many. 

 

I look at the comments in this thread (plans and implementation issues etc) and I can't help but think "You know the original Jubilees would work great in this situation".

 

I am sure that Jubilee owners are nodding their heads in agreement.

-Tom

 

 

In a word, yes.

But it's not quite that simple.

The following text is not thought to be a kidnapping, just a short excursion…My room is a bit more than medium sized (by European standards) and despite all the pros and cons of a "vintage sound" from my old Lascalas and other speakers of similar size or smaller, the room is in any case involved in the reproduction which I like very much.
My Jubilees sound fantastic but they are so large in terms of dispersion area that it is a similar sound experience like sitting in the near triangle of a nearfield monitor or like listening to big headphones in the room. In other words everything is very present, clear, effortless but somehow with less involvement of the room than mid sized speaker. A classroom would perhaps be the ideal room size for the Jubilees in my view. Nevertheless, I love them very much for their unique performance. 

They are reinstalled in a few weeks after a few years of abstinence.

 

What I really want to say, it would be too naive and too mechanically thought that it only goes in „one“ direction of gettings things "better". It also goes in the direction of "different" with the Jubilees and some emotional sound impression Lascalas or KH do perform very well and unique in their own way and that unmistakably very good.

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6 minutes ago, KT88 said:

In a word, yes.

But it's not quite that simple.

The following text is not thought to be a kidnapping, just a short excursion…My room is a bit more than medium sized (by European standards) and despite all the pros and cons of a "vintage sound" from my old Lascalas and other speakers of similar size or smaller, the room is in any case involved in the reproduction which I like very much.
My Jubilees sound fantastic but they are so large in terms of dispersion area that it is a similar sound experience like sitting in the near triangle of a nearfield monitor or like listening to big headphones in the room. In other words everything is very present, clear, effortless but somehow with less involvement of the room than mid sized speaker. A classroom would perhaps be the ideal room size for the Jubilees in my view. Nevertheless, I love them very much for their unique performance. 

They are reinstalled in a few weeks after a few years of abstinence.

 

What I really want to say, it would be too naive and too mechanically thought that it only goes in „one“ direction of gettings things "better". It also goes in the direction of "different" with the Jubilees and some emotional sound impression Lascalas or KH do perform very well and unique in their own way and that unmistakably very good.

Would love to see a picture of your room/listening set up.

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5 minutes ago, svberger said:

 

So to be clear, I'm not even sure any KH's are arriving. Yesterday I was contacted by my friend, who told me that he MIGHT be coming into a pair, and would I have any interest if so? I told him I was interested. He knows my place very well and he thinks that the room would work for them. I won't know until next week if they'll become a reality, and at that point I'll be able to provide more details as to which model, year, etc.

 

BTW, I rechecked the magnetic screw issue in the LS's, and lo and behold, they are both magnetic. I have removed them both and I will be replacing with non magnetic. Can't say the difference is as dramatic as removing the diode protection, but it was easy enough to do so why not. In perusing various threads last night I even found one where Bob Crites' found a similar screw in a picture of a members AA crossover and told him to check for it being magnetic and if so to remove/replace it. It was, and he did. So thanks again!

 

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The difference is not less distortion like when listening without diodes but a little bit more treble energy, subtle but noticeable, at least without the screw being in the magnetic field of the coil the xover then works as it was intended to do.

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23 minutes ago, svberger said:

Would love to see a picture of your room/listening set up.

Currently with the Lascala for a year.
Before that a year with my Tannoy Canterbury, which I also have for 22 years.
Before that 4 years with the Stirling Broadcast BBC LS 3/6.
Before that the Jubilees continuously from 2008 to 2017. I'm really looking forward to the reinstall and I'll avoid a few electronic mistakes I made back then. But it still sounded very unique and impressive.

 

To be honest, as much as I love the Jubilees, after 9 years it was like taking a breath with the "small" BBC monitors because there was a little more light coming through the windows again and the feeling of breathing. The Jubilees are a bit like speakers from the movie "Interstellar". I age slower when I sit in front of them :)

 

As a reference of scale you see my turntable rack.

 

 

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Thanks!

 

Beautiful, all of them!

 

Love the MC275. I have a MC240 driving mine now. Also have MC30's which are being refreshed but plan to install them as the main amps driving either the LS's or the Khorns, if those become a reality. The 240 will go to the second system driving either the present Cornwall's, or the LS's if I get Khorns.

 

Is that a C22 pre? I had one and loved it, foolishly sold it. Did get a C11 which is electrically basically the same and that will not be leaving.

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2 minutes ago, svberger said:

Thanks!

 

Beautiful, all of them!

 

Love the MC275. I have a MC240 driving mine now. Also have MC30's which are being refreshed but plan to install them as the main amps driving either the LS's or the Khorns, if those become a reality. The 240 will go to the second system driving either the present Cornwall's, or the LS's if I get Khorns.

 

Is that a C22 pre? I had one and loved it, foolishly sold it. Did get a C11 which is electrically basically the same and that will not be leaving.

In 2003 I had the chance to purchase this MC275 Mk4 for a very good price in Switzerland, 2.300 € then just one year old and mint. The seller was a hifi dealer in St. Gallen. I was not thinking about a pre amp because I was happy with my EAR Yoshino 864. The dealer offered me unasked this C22CE from about 1997 or so. In 2003 it was still sealed and never unpacked. So I bought it as well for 1.900 € and thought Im could sell it without a loss when I did not like it. But together with the MC275 it was a marriage in heaven and from 2003 until last week I have never changed that gear. In the period with the Jubilees I added another amp. 

Now I am preparing another solution for the Jubilees. Stuff for another thread when they are back.

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11 minutes ago, svberger said:

Thanks!

 

Beautiful, all of them!

 

Love the MC275. I have a MC240 driving mine now. Also have MC30's which are being refreshed but plan to install them as the main amps driving either the LS's or the Khorns, if those become a reality. The 240 will go to the second system driving either the present Cornwall's, or the LS's if I get Khorns.

 

Is that a C22 pre? I had one and loved it, foolishly sold it. Did get a C11 which is electrically basically the same and that will not be leaving.

I bet you could fall in love with the combination MC30 plus Klipschorn or Lascala. I think the MC30 is very special and horn pleasant due to its tube rectifier. I never heard it or the MC240 but I read that especially the MC240 is the secret tip for many Mcintosh aficionados .

Good if your C11 sounds like the C22.

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14 hours ago, svberger said:

Cool John! Congrats on the LS's. If they have the same tweeter protection as the AA discussed above and particularly if you're finding any harshness out of the tweeter, give the little disconnect mod a shot. I bet you'll be really surprised.

If I understand correctly, all I have to do is remove just one of the zener diode leads?

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On 1/28/2022 at 5:36 AM, svberger said:

To try it out very simply and reversibly at first, you only have to unscrew only one of the two diodes from the small sheet metal plate, loosen the threaded nut, and then pull out the diode. It doesn't matter which one. This plate conducts current from one diode to the other. When one diode is unscrewed, the whole circuit is interrupted. 
The wire can stay connected to the diode, you don't have to unsolder anything. But you should tape off the diode that is now hanging free with some insulating tape.

 

 

4 minutes ago, JohnW said:

If I understand correctly, all I have to do is remove just one of the zener diode leads?

 

Yes, KT88's instructions.

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Odd. No diodes on these.

And just hooked them up, ran room correction, did a bit of tweaking...these things are super sensitive to toe-in.

Going to have to fiddle about a bit. This change from the richness of the Cornwalls' bass to the tighter LS bass will take a bit of time. The soundstage seems to have receded a bit as well. Perhaps updating the caps/switching to AL3 configuration might help?


I haven't given up hope yet. I've only just begun.

 

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1 hour ago, JohnW said:

Odd. No diodes on these.

And just hooked them up, ran room correction, did a bit of tweaking...these things are super sensitive to toe-in.

Going to have to fiddle about a bit. This change from the richness of the Cornwalls' bass to the tighter LS bass will take a bit of time. The soundstage seems to have receded a bit as well. Perhaps updating the caps/switching to AL3 configuration might help?


I haven't given up hope yet. I've only just begun.

 

FWIW, the AL crossover is evidently problematic so changing might not be a bad idea.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/179965-crossovers-al-versus-the-others/

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Let's get back for a moment to the prospect of Khorns in my room. I should know more this week if they're available, and what model they are. But after researching other threads and taking into account what has been said in this thread, it becomes clear that the Khorns will require sealing of some sort to adequately perform in my room. Assuming that I won't be sealing with plywood(too much hassle for me) would the pipe foam suggestions that I've read about work ok? That seems easy enough to attempt. Would this provide the fix for putting these in my corners near the windows?

 

Or in the end, given that I really, really like my La Scala's, and also own Cornwall's is there any reason to even try the Khorns in my room, or is the general feeling that my  room seems too small with corners that aren't proper to do them any kind of justice?  If that's the consensus, then I'll tell my friend let's not bother with the exercise of trying to make these work and be very satisfied with what I already am lucky enough to own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Unless I’m wrong, the pipe insulation only works to better seal the speakers once you’ve already got them tight in the corners. I used this with mine when I had them. It doesn’t appear that you have sufficient corners to begin with. To make them sound as designed in your room you will need to build some false corners. At least that’s my take. 

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3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

Unless I’m wrong, the pipe insulation only works to better seal the speakers once you’ve already got them tight in the corners. I used this with mine when I had them. It doesn’t appear that you have sufficient corners to begin with. To make them sound as designed in your room you will need to build some false corners. At least that’s my take. 

Ah good to know! Thanks. 
 

 

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Nice to finally have my MC30's back in shape and in the mix with the LS's. Obviously the MC240 is a wonderful amp with these, but it now resides in my second system with Cornwall's. The 30's are amazing amps for vocals especially, and the combination with the mids of the LS's can be haunting in the best way.

 

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