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LaScala for this room


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6 minutes ago, geoff. said:

Worse case scenario, as has been mentioned, you try them rent free and sell them for what you have into them later!

 

I wouldn't try that with a lot of gear these days, but Heritage Klipsch, like McIntosh, is pretty easy to unload for at least what one pays for them, assuming what they paid is a reasonable amount.

 

Or, as a buddy said to me "You have two full systems set up, why not set up a 3rd? Cooking is overrated😅

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On 1/15/2022 at 4:43 PM, KT88 said:

I had the Lascala in another apartment a little closer together because the room was a bit narrower, as in your photo. Both in the other apartment and now, where the speakers are a further apart, the sound was/is excellent.
I personally do not need a subwoofer. The natural and powerful sound reproduction does not need a sub. Of course, the bass is not very deep, but the Lascala never sound thin or if something would be missing. The tones of a double bass are extremely natural. Voices and the midrange are the absolute strength of the Lascala. The K400 connects seamlessly to the bass...all of a piece.
The low E string of the double bass is not quite reached but it does not harm the wonderful musical enjoyment. Perhaps the secret lies in the fact that although the horn mercilessly stops supporting at higher basses, you can still feel the low notes, albeit more quietly. It is not a brutal cut but a gentle creeping out of the bass because you can sense direct bass through the doghouse. The ear reacts sensitively to abrupt cut offs but it forgives very benevolently a steady drop in sound energy. I would also always leave my Lascala as they are, no calming by bracing the side walls, no sterilization. Wes Montgomery, Chet Baker and Vladimir Horowitz visit you at home. BTW of all things piano, the Lascala is the master of piano reproduction...and I know a great many speakers. I have a pretty good piano in the next room, piano music is via the Lascalas authentic especially in the left hand very real (in the right hand anyway).

 

This photo I took just now.

 

 

D1922AD4-9E8F-4DDF-B3AC-8E457B843469.jpeg

This post gets me very excited.

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On 1/15/2022 at 4:56 PM, KT88 said:

BTW here comes one of my first posts at the Klipsch Forums, same speaker in the old appartement, a narrower postion as seen in one of. the photos. The benefit was that the room was longer and a bit higher. At that time I tried with an ALK universal network but now I am happily back to the original AA xover.

 

 

What is it that you like about the original crossover over the ALK? I’m sure I’ll like the original as I really like the original in my ‘77 Cornwalls but I’m interested in hearing your thoughts. 

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I've had two different pairs on LS, was always fine without subs. I did, for a while have a pair of MWM cabinets also in the room with the second pair. But they are huge... and cleanest bass I've heard.

 

Love the LS, very clean and tight sound.

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4 hours ago, Marvel said:

I've had two different pairs on LS, was always fine without subs. I did, for a while have a pair of MWM cabinets also in the room with the second pair. But they are huge... and cleanest bass I've heard.

 

Love the LS, very clean and tight sound.

Thanks for this. I'm hearing more from folks who have been satisfied with their LS w/o subs. I like it.

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15 hours ago, svberger said:

What is it that you like about the original crossover over the ALK? I’m sure I’ll like the original as I really like the original in my ‘77 Cornwalls but I’m interested in hearing your thoughts. 

TBH it is more than 16 years ago when I last listened to the ALK universal network. They are still in the basement and now where you ask I am curious myself to give the ALK another try which is now as I have restored the AA a serious comparison. I will come back to you after I have made the new comparison, probably within the next week.

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1 hour ago, KT88 said:

TBH it is more than 16 years ago when I last listened to the ALK universal network. They are still in the basement and now where you ask I am curious myself to give the ALK another try which is now as I have restored the AA a serious comparison. I will come back to you after I have made the new comparison, probably within the next week.

How did you restore the AA?

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5 minutes ago, svberger said:

How did you restore the AA?

 

In principle, I have only replaced the capacitors because the coils and the autoformer always remain good. The capacitors should have the impedances and thus the ESR as the original ones. These are PIO, so paper in oil types or polyester types. That is all that needs to be done.

 

My original AA crossover was very good in 1999 when I bought my 1977 Lascalas. But then I was unfortunately infected with the virus of trying and wanting to improve. Nothing against experimenting, it is an exciting part of the hobby for some of us. To cut a long story short it was so that I have undertaken since a year some improvements back to originality, this concerns not only the crossover.
The measures I had described to you here.

 

 

 

 

I'm just saying that, I don't want to reignite the debate. You can read that here for your pleasure...just as one example of several.

 

 

 

Two more things I changed on the AA xover. 1) The small coil in the high tone area was originally attached in some cases with magnetically reacting screw. This unintentionally changes the value of this coil and it sounds duller. So, replace this screw if it is the case with your Lascala with a non magnetic sensitive screw.
2) There is a tweeter protection consisting of two diodes connected in parallel to the signal path of the tweeter. In my view they worsen the sound, the tweeter sounds less silky and harder. Simply unscrew one of the diodes and the sound of the treble is more beautiful. Nothing destructive happens as long as you do not send 100 watts. But even for really loud listening, the tweeter is well protected without the diodes.

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3 minutes ago, KT88 said:

 

In principle, I have only replaced the capacitors because the coils and the autoformer always remain good. The capacitors should have the impedances and thus the ESR as the original ones. These are PIO, so paper in oil types or polyester types. That is all that needs to be done.

 

My original AA crossover was very good in 1999 when I bought my 1977 Lascalas. But then I was unfortunately infected with the virus of trying and wanting to improve. Nothing against experimenting, it is an exciting part of the hobby for some of us. To cut a long story short it was so that I have undertaken since a year some improvements back to originality, this concerns not only the crossover.
The measures I had described to you here.

 

 

 

 

I'm just saying that, I don't want to reignite the debate. You can read that here for your pleasure...just as one example of several.

 

 

 

Two more things I changed on the AA xover. 1) The small coil in the high tone area was originally attached in some cases with magnetically reacting screw. This unintentionally changes the value of this coil and it sounds duller. So, replace this screw if it is the case with your Lascala with a non magnetic sensitive screw.
2) There is a tweeter protection consisting of two diodes connected in parallel to the signal path of the tweeter. In my view they worsen the sound, the tweeter sounds less silky and harder. Simply unscrew one of the diodes and the sound of the treble is more beautiful. Nothing destructive happens as long as you do not send 100 watts. But even for really loud listening, the tweeter is well protected without the diodes.

No debate from me. People should do whatever they want/need to do to enjoy their gear. Small update to major mods, whatever floats their boat. I don't know how to solder, and have no desire to learn so that makes it easy for me to espouse not doing anything and enjoying as is. One reason I look for oil caps is because they often are within spec and sound great, and because I don't measure them anyway ignorance is bliss. If the speakers sound good to my ears, then it's all good. "But what about making them sound better?" I've been challenged with? "Better" is in the ears of the listener. I've had speakers that were restored for me with new caps and other sundry things, and I had a pair of Forte's that I got some Crites crossovers which were relatively easy to install since I didn't have to solder. Did they, or the other speakers sound "better"? No. Worse? Yes, on one occasion they did, and I asked the restorer to replace the old caps(which were oil) back. The Fortes? They sounded fine, but where others like the so called veil lifted effect, I don't necessarily. Or, sometimes it just depends on how heavy the veil is. As I indicated, to each their own.

 

LS's now on schedule to arrive around noon tomorrow, so should be able to file my initial thoughts later tomorrow afternoon/evening. Stay tuned.

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I fully agree with all the points you make, just have a look first if the oil filled old Aerovox caps are not leaky and after some days of listening just try my last to points (if the screw of the small coil is magnetic or not, and regarding the diodes, because the costs for protection is a worse sound which was not intended when the circuit was developed) because this are no measures to „enhance“ something but to see if your xover is working like it was intended by Klipsch

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1 minute ago, KT88 said:

I fully agree with all the points you make, just have a look first if the oil filled old Aerovox caps are not leaky and after some days of listening just try my last to points (if the screw of the small coil is magnetic or not, and regarding the diodes, because the costs for protection is a worse sound which was not intended when the circuit was developed) because this are no measures to „enhance“ something but to see if your xover is working like it was intended by Klipsch

All easy enough for me, and I will. Thanks.

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Just spoke to the seller and he assured me that not only are the caps not leaky, but he just measured them and they are both well within the 5% tolerance. I trust him because ,unlike me, he's very technically savvy. He loves these speakers, has had them for several years and babies them and unfortunately like a lot of folks has run into some financial issues so has to downsize. I'm excited to be getting them from him not only because I know they're in good shape, but he's a nice guy and hopefully this money will give him a bit of breathing room.

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11 minutes ago, svberger said:

Just spoke to the seller and he assured me that not only are the caps not leaky, but he just measured them and they are both well within the 5% tolerance. I trust him because ,unlike me, he's very technically savvy. He loves these speakers, has had them for several years and babies them and unfortunately like a lot of folks has run into some financial issues so has to downsize. I'm excited to be getting them from him not only because I know they're in good shape, but he's a nice guy and hopefully this money will give him a bit of breathing room.

 

That's a good sign the caps are measuring correct values. They should be checked for ESR at frequencies of interest, 500Hz and up for 13uF and 4.5kHz and up for the 2uF. My La Scala's from 1982 have the original oil filled capacitors in them and last I tested them they were within acceptable parameters so I left them in there as the speakers confirm they sound great. If you can keep it original, I.e. you like the sound of them then I recommend leaving them stock for a while and listen to them.

 

When I end up having to replace the capacitors I plan to use Paper capacitors, either paper and foil or metallized paper both oil impregnated. They will retain the Klipsch sound and I actually prefer them as I feel they are a tad smoother overall.

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They sound GREAT!

 

The bass is fine. Yes a tad light, but very respectable and fine for my tastes. Listening to a 2 eye copy of Miles' In A Silent Way, and we started to blow yes it was a little sharp, but then I remembered that it's ALWAYS a little sharp when he blows.

 

In any event, I think I'm going to have a lot of fun with these.

21 hours ago, KT88 said:

There is a tweeter protection consisting of two diodes connected in parallel to the signal path of the tweeter. In my view they worsen the sound, the tweeter sounds less silky and harder. Simply unscrew one of the diodes and the sound of the treble is more beautiful. Nothing destructive happens as long as you do not send 100 watts. But even for really loud listening, the tweeter is well protected without the diodes.

Heinz can you show me with a picture where these diodes are if I do want to try it out? Thanks! and thanks for your feedback, and everybody else for your extremely helpful and kind advice. I'm extremely happy right now.

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43 minutes ago, svberger said:

They sound GREAT!

 

The bass is fine. Yes a tad light, but very respectable and fine for my tastes. Listening to a 2 eye copy of Miles' In A Silent Way, and we started to blow yes it was a little sharp, but then I remembered that it's ALWAYS a little sharp when he blows.

 

In any event, I think I'm going to have a lot of fun with these.

Heinz can you show me with a picture where these diodes are if I do want to try it out? Thanks! and thanks for your feedback, and everybody else for your extremely helpful and kind advice. I'm extremely happy right now.

To try it out very simply and reversibly at first, you only have to unscrew only one of the two diodes from the small sheet metal plate, loosen the threaded nut, and then pull out the diode. It doesn't matter which one. This plate conducts current from one diode to the other. When one diode is unscrewed, the whole circuit is interrupted. 
The wire can stay connected to the diode, you don't have to unsolder anything. But you should tape off the diode that is now hanging free with some insulating tape.

 

 

 

About the background:
Don't worry, these diodes are parallel to the music signal, so you don't change anything in the circuit characteristics. The function of the diodes is to short the signal to the tweeter if it would be more than two watts. But imagine how much two watts would be at the tweeter. If your whole box gets two with the basses then that's already very loud, and with two watts over all, it's estimated that only 0.2 watts will reach the tweeter. This is just to reassure you.

 

And the screw I mentioned which is in some speakers magnetic is the one in the picture above left. Test it with a small magnet. if it reacts, remove it. For now, you can try this until you find a non-magnetic replacement.

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E4ABD3F3-BF0F-4C4A-A8A0-4AEC94275765.jpeg

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