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Any PS Audio gear experience?


dtr20
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Just curious if anyone hear has much experience with some PS Audio gear with Klipsch speakers.  I was told from a dealer that the PS Audio preamp and amp combos are very detailed with comes across as overly bright with Klipsch speakers.  Their BHK product lines look very nice and their Stellar phono preamp has very good reviews, especially over Parasound which is a brand I like a lot.  The biggest products I find intriguing is their Power Regenerators.  I watch a lot of the videos on PS Audio's YouTube channel and I have learned a lot of information about audio gear.  Obviously they are going to push their own products in that type of marketing.  Anyone hear using any Power Regenerators?  Is it worth it for mid-level systems, or only really benefitial for extremly higher end systems?  I am currently running a Parasound P6 preamp with a Parasound A23 amp.  I am just using the built-in phono preamp on the Parasound P6 for now, I have never tried an external phono preamp.  Thanks for any help.

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A few of my correspondents are into watching those PS audio videos of Paul, I can't stomach watching them myself as most of the information is wrong or misleading in order to sell their products.

 

My understanding is your line quality becomes pointless with well designed equipment, we engineers understand that there are line fluctuations so we design around it. Also your average power supply will filter any noise out, they have a much more difficult job smoothing the 120Hz ripple currents as it's an ugly low frequency waveform full of nasties. Sensitive stages get regulated etc..

 

A 're-generator' would only be necessary where your line power has gross amounts of distortion (>10%) or worse has DC. These issues may make the power transformer work much harder which obviously isn't good but I have never seen a house with over 5% THD and if you have DC then you want to get that taken care of regardless of audio equipment as all your house appliances and electronics will suffer.

 

The FCC makes laws where if your product is a highly non-linear load which can add distortion and pollute the mains they require filtering at the power input of the device. That's why you see switch mode power supplies like computer power supplies etc.. has all these common mode chokes and X and Y caps for common mode and normal mode noise suppression. PS Audio and many other power filter devices do the same thing, they are nothing more than passive filters. They may have an active filter type system by now which is much more effective in many regards but again if your equipment is designed well it's not needed, it's only needed by law if your device will pollute the grid.

 

I keep large surge suppression breakers for each bus directly on the power distribution panel to keep line transients at bay for the entire house. These eventually accept all the energy they are going accept (typically MOV's) and should be replaced every 3-5 years depending how many transient events you receive on average.

 

I advise before spending any money on anything have your power analyzed to see how clean and regulated it is. If it's fairly stable and <5% THD I wouldn't waste my money on any power products.

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My experience has been power line conditioning is a necessity regardless of equipment level.  I've been able to demo the difference on my room stereo and even on a Sony portable, and on a musician's crappy mid fi room stereo.  I chanced across a Tice Power Block, and it works well for me and the other two people I bought them for.

 

There appear to be several different approaches to power conditioning.  The Tice is old school massive isolation transformer.  Other approaches I've tested are smaller diode types, it seemed to work just as well.

 

The PS audio regeneration approach seems kind of extreme, never heard it.  

 

I also agree the PS audio Paul videos are difficult to watch (as are the Gary, GR research ones) even at double speed, those guys can be verbal masturbators at times, but sometimes a little nugget of wisdom can be found.

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I have a PS Audio DAC.  They are a good company with great customer service.  Paul's videos are painful.  The DAC uses an FPGA chip and they would release new code every 6-12 months for several years there for a while.  It was like getting a new, mostly improved, DAC every year.  They are focused now on the next generation DAC.  I still use mine and they support it.  It is Roon Ready which is its main selling point for me.

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4 hours ago, dtr20 said:

Just curious if anyone hear has much experience with some PS Audio gear with Klipsch speakers.  I was told from a dealer that the PS Audio preamp and amp combos are very detailed with comes across as overly bright with Klipsch speakers. 

This may not help you but here's what I do have experience with. PS Audios older semi-vintage preamps and power amps from the '90s were not bright but robust and full bodied sounding. I've not heard their current modern amps.

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11 minutes ago, CoryGillmore said:

I can't see how anyone could just flat out say Pauls videos are wrong. 99% of this hobby is subjective and Paul is sharing his opinion. I agree with most of what he says, personally. 

I agree with this. I think a lot of people disregard him because of his beliefs in cables mattering

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40 minutes ago, CoryGillmore said:

I can't see how anyone could just flat out say Pauls videos are wrong. 99% of this hobby is subjective and Paul is sharing his opinion. I agree with most of what he says, personally. 

 

Pick a video on power conditioning and I will pick it apart if you like, much of what is said is maybe more 'misleading' at best.

 

If the 'power conditioner' gives any advantage to whatever it's powering then all he would need to do is show difference in data between before and after at the output of the device. Say a preamp is plugged into the power conditioner, show a before and after noise floor measurement at the output of the preamp. Paul does a lot of talking but he never will quantify any objective data to prove without a doubt his devices improves anything, it's all subjective hoopla with tidbits of technical lingo to confuse a non engineer into making the wrong conclusion that they somehow need these 'conditioners' for their equipment.

 

If you told the engineer that designed your top of the line high fidelity amplifier that you plug their gear into a power conditioner they will most likely be offended. They understand that your precious signal is nothing more than a modulated DC supply, and they go to great lengths to make sure that this DC supply is as perfect as can be no matter what is happening on the AC power input. Even if you had an absolutely perfect 120v 60Hz power signal what do you think happens when it passes through a rectifier? Your perfect sine wave turns into a nasty saw tooth wave full of odd harmonics because a rectifier is a grossly non-linear load. That's why all the important stuff happens AFTER the rectifier.

 

I get it, the laymen isn't going to understand any of it, the people selling this stuff are really good at making you worry about things that are not there or do not matter. They are great at telling you very eloquently about the virtues but slow to show any actual relevant data of proof.

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2 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Pick a video on power conditioning and I will pick it apart if you like, much of what is said is maybe more 'misleading' at best.

 

If the 'power conditioner' gives any advantage to whatever it's powering then all he would need to do is show difference in data between before and after at the output of the device. Say a preamp is plugged into the power conditioner, show a before and after noise floor measurement at the output of the preamp. Paul does a lot of talking but he never will quantify any objective data to prove without a doubt his devices improves anything, it's all subjective hoopla with tidbits of technical lingo to confuse a non engineer into making the wrong conclusion that they somehow need these 'conditioners' for their equipment.

 

If you told the engineer that designed your top of the line high fidelity amplifier that you plug their gear into a power conditioner they will most likely be offended. They understand that your precious signal is nothing more than a modulated DC supply, and they go to great lengths to make sure that this DC supply is as perfect as can be no matter what is happening on the AC power input. Even if you had an absolutely perfect 120v 60Hz power signal what do you think happens when it passes through a rectifier? Your perfect sine wave turns into a nasty saw tooth wave full of odd harmonics because a rectifier is a grossly non-linear load. That's why all the important stuff happens AFTER the rectifier.

 

I get it, the laymen isn't going to understand any of it, the people selling this stuff are really good at making you worry about things that are not there or do not matter. They are great at telling you very eloquently about the virtues but slow to show any actual relevant data of proof.

Yeah I don't really go in for power conditioners and all that. One thing Paul says that I do agree with is how he integrates a sub into his system. He runs his mains as full range and crosses the sub over at the point where the mains naturally fall off. Many people don't do this. Like why even buy the big expensive tower version of a speaker if you're basically going to neuter it below 120hz and pass everything to a separate box. Should've just got bookshelf speakers if you were gonna do that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The BHK250 and BHK Preamp have fantastic synergy with the Forte IV’s.  Incredible sound in my room.  I have a Perfectwave Transport, the Directstream DAC, a P5 Power Plant, GemDandy Polytable and MoFi Phono Preamp.  Listening to Grand Funk Hits on vinyl right now!

 

Living in a very rural part of Texas, the P5 made a tremendous difference in sound quality.  I’ve had the equipment for almost a decade.  The company is great to work with, their trade program makes upgrading equipment easy and cost-effective, and the sound is detailed, warm and lively.  
 

Buy from PS Audio, I say!

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On 1/14/2022 at 12:52 PM, dtr20 said:

I am currently running a Parasound P6 preamp with a Parasound A23 amp.  I am just using the built-in phono preamp on the Parasound P6 for now, I have never tried an external phono preamp.  Thanks for any help.

 

Why not keep the Parasound?  This is good equipment, isn't it?  It sure looks like nice equipment and Parasound is supposed to mate very well with Klipsch products. 

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The Parasound works very well with my khorns, but I have a case of upgrade-itis and you know, the grass is always greener somewhere. Just trying to figure out if a dedicated phono preamp would be better over the built in phono preamp. And then wondering about power solutions.

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1 minute ago, charok said:

keep the Parasounds and demo the Jubilee

I heard the new jubilees and they are amazing!  I am on the lookout for an older pair of jubilees now, but I can't find any in the area.

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