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"Musical" Subwoofer to Complement Cornwall IIs?


formanj

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On 1/21/2022 at 12:23 PM, formanj said:

I am currently running a McIntosh separates system (MC225 tube amp, MR-78 Tuner, C32 Preamp) with my Klipsch Cornwall IIs, and I currently have a Klipsch R-120SW subwoofer that is simply not doing it for me.  I am primarily playing 2-channel analog music through this system, but I do listen to CDs from time to time.  I am looking for a "MUSICAL" sub to provide low end punch without to much "boominess" or distortion.  I would like something that would be easy to "blend" in with the Cornwalls, and my budget is around $1000.  Any suggestions from those who may have experience with the Cornwalls and subwoofers?

If you can find one.  The most musical sub I have listened to, is the tympany sub.  A Canadian company, that now makes 100k and above speakers. 

But the sub was made in the 90s and sold for 900$? Back then.  I have a 15" in a sealed box, that is only 17"x17"x17". It doesn't need much space. It came with a 600watt plate amp.  That unfortunately I needed to replace.  But it sings now after a Dayton replacement. 

Or get an svs. 

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On 1/21/2022 at 12:23 PM, formanj said:

I am currently running a McIntosh separates system (MC225 tube amp, MR-78 Tuner, C32 Preamp) with my Klipsch Cornwall IIs, and I currently have a Klipsch R-120SW subwoofer that is simply not doing it for me.  I am primarily playing 2-channel analog music through this system, but I do listen to CDs from time to time.  I am looking for a "MUSICAL" sub to provide low end punch without to much "boominess" or distortion.  I would like something that would be easy to "blend" in with the Cornwalls, and my budget is around $1000.  Any suggestions from those who may have experience with the Cornwalls and subwoofers?

I have a similar problem that is driving me crazy.  I believe the answer maybe that we have a powered, digitally amplified subwoofer connected to an analog preamp.  It seems to me we need an ADC box from the preamp to the sub.  I can not find a suitable box to do the job

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/24/2023 at 8:24 PM, warrenwhis said:

I have a similar problem that is driving me crazy.  I believe the answer maybe that we have a powered, digitally amplified subwoofer connected to an analog preamp.  It seems to me we need an ADC box from the preamp to the sub.  I can not find a suitable box to do the job

 

 

 

What?

Many people use a class D amplifier and an analog preamp with excellent results; not aware of many amplifiers with direct digital inputs.

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  • 2 months later...

Multiple smaller subs would be an option. Although it's tough to integrate them into a room unless it's a dedicated listening/home theater room.  I did this when I had my home theater.  I purchased 4 used Velodyne 10" powered subs... all for right around $400 total!  I had two on the front wall, one on a side wall and one on the back wall.  The idea is to try to even out the nodes so you don't have a ton of bass in one spot and a bass vacuum in another. (There is a system that is sold called the swarm system, but it's really just 4 dayton audio HO 10" subs with the 1K watt dayton audio sub amp.  Here is one link:  http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html)

 

I roll my eyes when I see someone with four 18" subs all on the front wall in a bedroom sized area.  That just screams to me that they are mostly deaf, they like to hear nothing but bass, or they have no idea how to tune a system and just resort to the "bigger is always better" theory.  Here is an example from the web...

image.thumb.png.889c20be61a0e147bcf7a35bf6c88f3c.png

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With the exception of the ultra expensive new Jubilee's the Cornwall's produce the deepest bass of any of the Heritage Series so a sub isn't going to get you a lot deeper than what they produce. 34hz is pretty low. I own 14 subs and only 3 of them go lower than that so unless you're really into pipe organ music i'm not sure why you'd need a sub for your Cornwall's

Edited by carewser
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On 6/1/2023 at 7:36 PM, carewser said:

34hz is pretty low

Yes... and kind of!  According to the specs, the Cornwall is down -4dB at 34 Hz whereas your decent sub, when integrated properly, should be relatively flat and start to drop off near/at/or below 20Hz.

 

I don't listen to music loud anymore, however, I like it to sound full at lower volumes.  There is a perceived loss of low end when the music is quieter.  The sub fills in the low end at lower listening levels. That is one reason I have subs on almost every system in my house and that is why one might want one for their Cornwalls.  It's a personal preference of course, and depending on what music you are listening to, you might not need anything larger than a 6.5" two way bookshelf sized speaker.

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1 hour ago, Iteachstem said:

Yes... and kind of!  According to the specs, the Cornwall is down -4dB at 34 Hz whereas your decent sub, when integrated properly, should be relatively flat and start to drop off near/at/or below 20Hz.

 

I don't listen to music loud anymore, however, I like it to sound full at lower volumes.  There is a perceived loss of low end when the music is quieter.  The sub fills in the low end at lower listening levels. That is one reason I have subs on almost every system in my house and that is why one might want one for their Cornwalls.  It's a personal preference of course, and depending on what music you are listening to, you might not need anything larger than a 6.5" two way bookshelf sized speaker.

That's a big part of the reason I can't go back to a 2 channel system, because it didn't matter which equalizer I used or what I set them at, I could never get deep bass and that's exactly what subs provide even at low volume

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, warrenwhis said:

I have a similar problem that is driving me crazy.  I believe the answer maybe that we have a powered, digitally amplified subwoofer connected to an analog preamp.  It seems to me we need an ADC box from the preamp to the sub.  I can not find a suitable box to do the job

 

 

 

It's a pity this guy hasn't been back.  He mentioned that his sub has digital amplification, but Class D does not mean digital, any more than Class A means analog.  They're both analog amplifiers.

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On 6/1/2023 at 6:42 PM, Iteachstem said:

I roll my eyes when I see someone with four 18" subs all on the front wall in a bedroom sized area.  That just screams to me that they are mostly deaf, they like to hear nothing but bass, or they have no idea how to tune a system and just resort to the "bigger is always better" theory.  Here is an example from the web...

Here you go, your eyes should be spinning like propellers now.  I have great hearing, seek a balanced frequency response in my sound systems, know how to tune a system and possess all the tools to do so.

 

Not 4 but 8 18" subs in 10 cf ported boxes, plus 2 10" subs, all driven by amplifiers capable of perhaps ten thousand watts, and strategically dispersed around the room. Each selected to provide a certain sound character (albeit, not a small bedroom but 26' by 20'). The low frequency response is so smooth, evenly dispersed, effortless, and realistic (as in a small club venue) ... you just can't imagine it until it is heard. And I never listen to music very loud, at low volumes the impact is so large and striking, but never loud and boomy. People write of having either very low response or crisp, snappy not so low frequency response - I have both simultaneously. 

 

I could reduce amp wattage and take 2 subs out and not see much of a noticeable difference, but any less than that and there is something missing. I never play it without the entire system running - it's like audio crack.

 

You shouldn't ridicule things that you haven't experienced.

JBL 5-8-09 b.JPG

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2 hours ago, Quad Khorns said:

You shouldn't ridicule things that you haven't experienced.

This just lets your ignorance shine!  You have zero knowledge of my past audio experiences.

 

I've had many systems over the years...dating back to my DJ system in college that consisted of four 18" EV subs powered by two Crown Macrotech 2400's... so I know what chest thumping bass sounds like.  I also currently run 4 small 10" velodyne subs in my  home theater and know what well balanced and equally distributed bass sounds like. 

 

I'm sure your systems sounds and looks great to you.  I was simply commenting on the ridiculous setup of the one photo.... clearly not an ideal setup.  I am not a fan of a ton of speaker/audio gear cluttering up my space.  To me it seems like an audio gear pissing contest... and I don't play those childish games.

 

If you know what you are doing you can get away with a lot more than half of the audio gear in small to mid-sized rooms.  One 18" should be able to blow you out of this world if built and setup properly. Two 18's even better, because they are working less to create the same amount of sound and can be placed around the room to help even out the bass.  However, there is the law of diminishing returns when in comes to the amount of subs you cram into a room.

 

Anyway, good luck with your future audio endeavors... I still thing you can cram some more gear into your space!

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On 7/4/2023 at 2:07 PM, Iteachstem said:

This just lets your ignorance shine!  You have zero knowledge of my past audio experiences.

 

I've had many systems over the years...dating back to my DJ system in college that consisted of four 18" EV subs powered by two Crown Macrotech 2400's... so I know what chest thumping bass sounds like.  I also currently run 4 small 10" velodyne subs in my  home theater and know what well balanced and equally distributed bass sounds like. 

 

I'm sure your systems sounds and looks great to you.  I was simply commenting on the ridiculous setup of the one photo.... clearly not an ideal setup.  I am not a fan of a ton of speaker/audio gear cluttering up my space.  To me it seems like an audio gear pissing contest... and I don't play those childish games.

 

If you know what you are doing you can get away with a lot more than half of the audio gear in small to mid-sized rooms.  One 18" should be able to blow you out of this world if built and setup properly. Two 18's even better, because they are working less to create the same amount of sound and can be placed around the room to help even out the bass.  However, there is the law of diminishing returns when in comes to the amount of subs you cram into a room.

 

Anyway, good luck with your future audio endeavors... I still thing you can cram some more gear into your space!

I never commented about your knowledge or experience of audio other than to say you should listen to other's systems and setup’s before you publicly ridicule them. But since you opened the door, I will say that you have just exposed your lack of experience and diminished credibility of audio knowledge by making that nonsensical comment of using a single 18” sub to “blow you out of this world if built and setup properly”. I can throw many rooms at you and dare you to make one 18” sub do that – I’ll even give you two subs and show you the folly of your attempts with REW measurements and listening tests. (Oh and why do you have 4 – 10” subs and not one 18”?)

 

Making that statement without tempering it with the realities of room interactions, multiple subwoofer coupling effects, and adjusting crossover points/gain/time delay, etc. for response smoothing, just exposes your lack of technical and testing experience.


If you seek an audio system that satisfies your budget and gives you a sound you like (albeit in your 2 x 2 sweet spot), knock yourself out. But thinking you can get maximum effect with a cheapskate skimpy system,  well you are only fooling yourself and those that believe your hype. It only takes eyes and ears (look at many professionally done systems and experience many listening tests) to recognize that as nonsense. As for me, I seek a life like, dynamic, realistic, smooth, even response - even if I have to overkill the solution. No compromises.

 

I never knew a DJ that did not self-appoint themselves as an audio expert. And in obtaining advanced engineering degrees, I never knew, or had an engineering professor that could engineer successfully in the real world. That’s why they teach after all. Ridiculing other systems without having heard them is arrogant. Save your future pompous, self-inflating comments for your students.

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14 hours ago, Quad Khorns said:

I never commented about your knowledge or experience of audio

Uh.... yes you did.  Apparently you can't remember very well. Look below.

 

On 7/4/2023 at 10:51 AM, Quad Khorns said:

You shouldn't ridicule things that you haven't experienced.

I can't argue with stupid.  Please don't contact or comment on any of my posts from here on.  Thanks.

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