Amphicar Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Hello everyone, the time has come to upgrade amps and really see what these 904s can do. I sold my Marantz 4300 and 2230, still have a Yamaha CA-1010 and Marantz 4270. I am entertaining the thought of bi amping, perhaps Adcoms? I have never done this before, only ever used receivers or integrated amps. What do you recommend? Cheaper the better, I enjoy great sound on a budget rather than just throwing money at stuff. $1000ish budget, but once I have recommendations I will take my time finding deals. Open to pro gear, or tubes, or solid state. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 This here seems like a great deal if looking at used gear: 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, jjptkd said: This here seems like a great deal if looking at used gear: Looks like I am too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charok Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 mono amped, hard to go wrong with crown xls or qsc line active bi-amped, which is how my 904's are, will likely be over your proposed budget even used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Why not look into Yamaha power amps, either the pro or the home models? They have good reputations, for both sound and reliability/longevity. I’ve been using a pair of their MX-D1 power amps for over 15 years, and I’m still very happy with them. As for bi-amping (True bi-amping, not “fool’s bi-amping”), you’ll need a second stereo/2-channel amplifier, plus an active electronic crossover, and necessary cables, etc., etc. That should give you great sound, but it won’t be cheap. Sure, you can always cobble together something that will make sound, but what would be the point? These are high-performance speakers, and should be treated and respected as such. If you want a bi-amped system, you might as well do it right, so for now I’d strongly suggest that you find a good high-performance/high-quality amp, at your price point likely used, and work with that, getting your system set up really right. Once you hear that, it may be everything you need, with sound that puts a smile on your face every time you listen to it. Sometimes, putting a limit on what you want to spend can work against getting what you really want. If your budget isn’t big enough, keep saving for a few months until it is. That will give you some time to do more research and look at more possible places to find what you want. I’ve never had 904s, so I’m only speaking in generalities. Emile, on the other hand, has a pair of them and is a very knowledgeable guy, so you can learn a lot there, since he can speak in specifics, from his own experience. Good luck with your quest for better sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Many 904 owners use Crown amps - K1/2 or Xls or ... Using the (lower watts; 450?) K1 in stereo mode myself. (Had a 100W Yamaha on it before.) Hard to improve upon these K1/2's. You can find two of these used for under $1000 - don't know how much improvement single mono units will give you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, Amphicar said: still have a Yamaha CA-1010 and Marantz 4270 Believe you will need more than the 100w/ch from the CA-1010 to bring out the best from you 904's. Had a Marantz 2252B (52w/ch) on them and while good, something was missing. Then tried a 120w/ch Yamaha; better but still lacking. Found a Crown K1, and believe it hit the sweet spot with 350w/ch. Even more power might be better, but you will get diminishing returns on $-spent vs improvements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, Amphicar said: Hello everyone, the time has come to upgrade amps and really see what these 904s can do. I sold my Marantz 4300 and 2230, still have a Yamaha CA-1010 and Marantz 4270. I am entertaining the thought of bi amping, perhaps Adcoms? I have never done this before, only ever used receivers or integrated amps. What do you recommend? Cheaper the better, I enjoy great sound on a budget rather than just throwing money at stuff. $1000ish budget, but once I have recommendations I will take my time finding deals. Open to pro gear, or tubes, or solid state. Crown amplifier - at least 300 wpc at 4 Ohms ---best check with @Westcoastdrums he had an XLS -2502 for sale in the Garage Sale , could be sold ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifornian Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I use the crown xls on my dual jbl 18” lowers on my jubinstein. Silent, power for days, and never breaks a sweat. I’ve been through so much gear in the last 10 years getting to this point. I’d say save the headache and just go with a crown xls that has enough watts and call it a day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, 001 said: Crown amplifier - at least 300 wpc at 4 Ohms ---best check with @Westcoastdrums he had an XLS -2502 for sale in the Garage Sale , could be sold ? And.... Sold. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 2:25 PM, Islander said: Why not look into Yamaha power amps, either the pro or the home models? They have good reputations, for both sound and reliability/longevity. I’ve been using a pair of their MX-D1 power amps for over 15 years, and I’m still very happy with them. As for bi-amping (True bi-amping, not “fool’s bi-amping”), you’ll need a second stereo/2-channel amplifier, plus an active electronic crossover, and necessary cables, etc., etc. That should give you great sound, but it won’t be cheap. Sure, you can always cobble together something that will make sound, but what would be the point? These are high-performance speakers, and should be treated and respected as such. If you want a bi-amped system, you might as well do it right, so for now I’d strongly suggest that you find a good high-performance/high-quality amp, at your price point likely used, and work with that, getting your system set up really right. Once you hear that, it may be everything you need, with sound that puts a smile on your face every time you listen to it. Sometimes, putting a limit on what you want to spend can work against getting what you really want. If your budget isn’t big enough, keep saving for a few months until it is. That will give you some time to do more research and look at more possible places to find what you want. I’ve never had 904s, so I’m only speaking in generalities. Emile, on the other hand, has a pair of them and is a very knowledgeable guy, so you can learn a lot there, since he can speak in specifics, from his own experience. Good luck with your quest for better sound! Ill look into Yamaha, but I think based on other recommendations I may keep my eyes open for a good used Crown XLS, K1, or K2. What are some reasonable options for active crossovers? I have no knowledge of how to set one of those up or get anything dialed in. Conversing with a forum member, they recommended a UMIK and having a forum member remotely dial things in. Xilica is more than I would like to spend, but I am not opposed to learning how all of this works and picking things up piece by piece over the next few months. I do not want to half-*** this. The $1,000 was just to put a number on it. On 1/30/2022 at 2:48 PM, Emile said: Believe you will need more than the 100w/ch from the CA-1010 to bring out the best from you 904's. Had a Marantz 2252B (52w/ch) on them and while good, something was missing. Then tried a 120w/ch Yamaha; better but still lacking. Found a Crown K1, and believe it hit the sweet spot with 350w/ch. Even more power might be better, but you will get diminishing returns on $-spent vs improvements. Nice to hear from you again regarding 904’s. Do you have a separate amp running the HF, or the crown K1 powering it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Some cheap Xilicas here if they have any left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Amphicar said: Nice to hear from you again regarding 904’s. Do you have a separate amp running the HF, or the crown K1 powering it all? Yes; Crown K1 powers all. Re some other issues ... UMIK is the microphone used with REW software to fine-tune settings. You can use a MiniDSP 2x4HD for the LF/HF settings, or (better) a Xilica XP-2040. Haha; have an (almost) brand new one if you are interested. Cheers, Emile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 12 hours ago, Emile said: Yes; Crown K1 powers all. Re some other issues ... UMIK is the microphone used with REW software to fine-tune settings. You can use a MiniDSP 2x4HD for the LF/HF settings, or (better) a Xilica XP-2040. Haha; have an (almost) brand new one if you are interested. Cheers, Emile Any noticeable noise using the K1 for the HF? I believe we’ve discussed the MiniDSP before. It is also much more affordable at this juncture, is the difference in performance really great compared to the Xilica? If I can spend a little more on amplification and a little less on the crossover right now, with room to upgrade down the road, that may be my best option. I guess leaning towards a K1 or K2. What would you have to have for the Xilica? Feel free to PM if you don’t want to post it here. Kindest Regards, Tucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Amphicar said: Any noticeable noise using the K1 for the HF? Hi Tucker, Have not really noticed any HF noise with the K1 Had some noise about a year ago, but traced that down to bad wiring. Re the Xilica XP-2040 ... Yes, probably many times better than the MiniDSP, both in build quality and functions. Haha; Mercedes vs Yugo. But, not sure if you can "hear" the difference. Paid about $850 for it (NEW, w/XLR cables). Used it for maybe 8 hours. Since I am not using it now I'll let you have it for $500 + shipping. Cheers, Emile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 The best my 904's sounded were when I had them active/ bi-amped. I used a Crown K2 for the LF cabs and an Inspire tube amp (6550 output tubes) for the horn and my 4080 xillica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolox Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 There's a new mini DSP, the mini DSP "FLEX", and according to measurements it offers much higher performances (actually, very near SOTA) than any previous iterations including the HD versions. Definitely something to consider for those who can't afford Xilica! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 475$ a pop , 2 inputs , 4 outputs . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 Thank you all for the input. I have a rough idea of what I will do but not pulling the trigger yet. Two very large trees fell on my barn, taking financial priority over amp upgrades. All in good time! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolox Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Amphicar said: Thank you all for the input. I have a rough idea of what I will do but not pulling the trigger yet. Two very large trees fell on my barn, taking financial priority over amp upgrades. All in good time! Just a thought: after trying various amps (no tubes, but some class A solid state) and going through many disappointments (reliability for example) I’m now bi amping my system with some pocket class D amps. Really if you can try something like a Charlize or Trends TA2024 or TA2020 amp, on the high pass, if you are ready to give it some quality linear power supply and a little bit of tweaking (coupling caps etc) you might well forget about expensive tubes or high end transistors at least for a while. I’m cheap, but my ears are good, and they are surprisingly well behaved little marvels! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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