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KG 2.2 and KG 3 Worth the upgrade


sbcoffey42

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I just picked up a set of KG2.2 and KG3's. I got the 4 for 400.00, not sure if I overpaid or not but I was specifically looking for some high sensitivity speakers because I want to build a small system off of a tube amp, specifically a tubecube 7 or similar. This will be my first tube amp, so starting small. The speakers look great and are pretty flawless inside and out and sounded pretty darn good when I auditioned them. Anyway when I got them home I started to notice some things that I didn't know if they were characteristics of the speakers or results of age on the crossovers. The 3's have a horn loaded tweeter and sound a bit more airy and natural on the highs but really kinda get congested in the low mids on rock music and sound a bit hollow. The songs were roundabout from yes and One from metallica, both files were HiRez from amazon music through a marantz 2252B. The 2.2 sounded a bit better but the vocals were lacking as well as any guitar work. I played them against each other and against my Hersey's and there was obviously no comparison. I know there is no way to get a kg to sound as good as a Heresy but I was wondering if someone on this site would have some recommendations to get the best sound I can out of the 2.2 and the 3. I have soldering skills, I can read a schematic and have access to any equipment I need to evaluate and mod these, so I am looking for any recommendations. I found the crossover schematics here and I know I can get tweeter upgrades from crites, is that all you can do or are there other things I could try? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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kg 3 & 2.2 are pretty old now so would be good candidates for a recap, can use budget caps like dayton or ERSE etc or the klipsch caps some prefer, the benefit would be getting new ones in there.  the TI tweets should be an improvement, most people that use them really like them but as with anything in this hobby, some dont like them.  ive used them in forte2 before & made a very noticeable improvement over the stock ones.  

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So I have spent the day with them and after some positioning and appreciation for what they are, they sound a bit different. I do feel like with that 2200 hz crossover frequency there is a big task for the tweeter. I plan to recap, i opened them up this morning and I can get to everything easy enough. I will most likely recap first, give them some time and try the tweeter upgrades.

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that 'congested, hollow' sound will probably be sorted out by replacing the electrolytic caps in the crossovers.  Ti tweeter diaphragms do pretty nicely at extending and 'sweetening' the treble.  Crites kits are worth the money.

 

Do one thing at a time to one speaker at a time, 'leapfrog' your changes from one side to the other and listen between. Then you'll KNOW what the differences are.  I'll bet they won't be subtle.

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16 hours ago, DirtyErnie said:

that 'congested, hollow' sound will probably be sorted out by replacing the electrolytic caps in the crossovers.  Ti tweeter diaphragms do pretty nicely at extending and 'sweetening' the treble.  Crites kits are worth the money.

 

Do one thing at a time to one speaker at a time, 'leapfrog' your changes from one side to the other and listen between. Then you'll KNOW what the differences are.  I'll bet they won't be subtle.

 

from what Mr Crites explained to me, the electrolytic cap is in the woofer "dump" circuit & has little to no effect on the sound.  the mylar film caps in the mid/tweet section are what will make the large majority of difference in sound. 

 

Crites kits are worth the money for those that cant or dont want to research other caps & find correct values, which is really very easy to do.  the dayton & sonicaps they sell can be found for a little cheaper from other sources, & if you can do basic soldering the full kits are pointless since the caps are the only thing that need replaced in older speakers, the rest of the parts dont really go bad.   

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If the electrolytics are working, they shouldn't effect the sound.  If they fail and go high-ESR, they'll change the behavior of the filter quite substantially, pushing it closer to a 1st order crossover.
Speakers I've done where the low-pass shunt caps have been bad, the difference was quite obvious.  Others I've done where those caps were still working, the differences were much more subtle.

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17 hours ago, DirtyErnie said:

that 'congested, hollow' sound will probably be sorted out by replacing the electrolytic caps in the crossovers.  Ti tweeter diaphragms do pretty nicely at extending and 'sweetening' the treble.  Crites kits are worth the money.

 

Do one thing at a time to one speaker at a time, 'leapfrog' your changes from one side to the other and listen between. Then you'll KNOW what the differences are.  I'll bet they won't be subtle.

I agree with this (above). YMMV, and FWIW, I swapped out the diaphragms in a pair of Kg2's I've owned since 1986, and thought it was a nice improvement.

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On 2/1/2022 at 10:42 AM, DirtyErnie said:

If the electrolytics are working, they shouldn't effect the sound.  If they fail and go high-ESR, they'll change the behavior of the filter quite substantially, pushing it closer to a 1st order crossover.
Speakers I've done where the low-pass shunt caps have been bad, the difference was quite obvious.  Others I've done where those caps were still working, the differences were much more subtle.

 

that is true however we have no way if knowing of the lytic caps are bad or to what extent.  my point was based on a working capacitor or even one a little out of spec.  complete failure would be different. 

 

when recapping an x-over of this age & unknown condition, its best to just do the whole thing not just hope one cap is bad.    

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I can test the caps but I have to unsolder them and remove them. I may as well replace them if I get that far. 3 caps won’t be too bad and I’ll go ahead and order the tweeter upgrades. I’m going to shop around for caps first to see if I can save some cash.

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7 hours ago, sbcoffey42 said:

Does anyone know what type of cap the blue ones are, these are the 4 and 8 uF. Are these film, mylar, or what type of film.

kg3 crossover.jpg

EDIT:  I reread your post, sorry wrong answer.  Go with metalized poly as these are not expensive speakers. 

 

***  ******

 

Look at your schematic. 

 

When you remove the caps, the circuit board will have the value and voltage rating printed on it.  You can also trace out the circuit by looking at the back of the board.  It is very obvious when you take a look.

 

I just did a recap using Jantex Z Standard caps from Parts Express.  Just a little more expensive than the Daytons.  I used Clarity Caps in the past as a good value and good sounding cap.  FWIW the Jantez rate better in this shootout, whicxh is where I learned about the Clarity Caps.  Not scientific but at least something to go by.  I like dealing with Partsexpress so this is a good source for caps. 

 

https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

I have several KG 2.2s and put a pair in my main system for a test far from the walls.  They actually sounded quite good. 

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8 hours ago, sbcoffey42 said:

Does anyone know what type of cap the blue ones are, these are the 4 and 8 uF. Are these film, mylar, or what type of film.

kg3 crossover.jpg

 

they are mylar. i agree that a decent poly metalized cap is all thats needed for these mid-fi speakers,  any of the mentioned brands from PE will work fine, or look at the ERSE caps, they get very good reviews & cant be beat for the price,  Crites told me they test as good as the 1% daytons.  i have used them in a many different klipsch & other brand speakers with very good results, cured a very bad issue with chorus 2 that sounded like a blanket was covering the fronts with the aged stock caps & made a noticeable improvement over forte2 with stock caps that sounded fine before hand. biggest plus is they are sized similar to the stock caps so they will fit on the board without any rearranging like the bigger sonicaps or other similar brands.  ERSE sells mylar film caps too that are similar to the stock klipsch caps.  removing & changing the caps on these types of boards is very quick & easy to do.  report back with your results.    

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