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I added subs to my Cornwall IVs and fell in love all over again


CoryGillmore

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7 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

everyone has their favorite brands & reasons for liking them... but SVS has some very nice subs & in that price range of $1500 i think their $1500 comparable sub is easily as good if not better in performance alone, but will REL refund your money if youre not happy?  or allow full value trade in to upgrade?? or let you transfer the warranty to a new owner if you sell it after a couple years?  all those things are huge benefits that have value when buying a new sub. 

 

turning your nose up at SVS is fine if justified... but theres a reason why "everyone buys a damn SVS" they are very good performing subs for any given price point & have a lot more benefits than any other sub brand out there.  

Hate to rain on this parade, but SVS subs are Expensive Toy Subs compared to Serious Tapped Horn designs, or the Fitzmaurice THT's yo can have someone build for you for half the money.

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27 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Hate to rain on this parade, but SVS subs are Expensive Toy Subs compared to Serious Tapped Horn designs, or the Fitzmaurice THT's yo can have someone build for you for half the money.

Come on Claude, toy subs ?

 

It's true, and don't forget expensive.

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11 hours ago, jjptkd said:

Yeah not to bust your chops here and it is your money but $3k for a pair of subs crossed over at 40hz with a -6db point at 27hz is an awful lot of money to pay for less than a 10hz lower extension of your mains.   

It's all good brother! But my cheap Klispch subs I think is rated down to maybe 34hz and even it adds enough low-end grunt and impact to be worth having hooked up!

 

8 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

everyone has their favorite brands & reasons for liking them... but SVS has some very nice subs & in that price range of $1500 i think their $1500 comparable sub is easily as good if not better in performance alone, but will REL refund your money if youre not happy?  or allow full value trade in to upgrade?? or let you transfer the warranty to a new owner if you sell it after a couple years?  all those things are huge benefits that have value when buying a new sub. 

 

turning your nose up at SVS is fine if justified... but theres a reason why "everyone buys a damn SVS" they are very good performing subs for any given price point & have a lot more benefits than any other sub brand out there.  

I can't disagree with anything you said. And I have no good reason for it, basically it comes down to me sorta being a subwoofer hipster lmao. Which is pretty dumb. 

 

If money and space were no object I'd have a JL Fathom beside each Cornwall. Hell I basically have a passive Fathom sitting in my room unused and not hooked up. I had 4 JL Audio 13.5" w6 subs in a Chevy Tahoe 15 years ago. I still have 3 of these subs sitting in my house unused. 


The reason I'm stuck on REL is I find those drivers intoxicating to look at and SPACE! I can fit one beside each CWIV in the exact spot my current subs sit.  Anything bigger and I'd have to put my mains closer together and my mains are perfectly placed. OR I could put bigger subs on the insides of my speakers.

 

Out of curiosity, which subs would you guys get at $1500 each? Maybe I'll reconsider....I don't have space for folded or tapped horns though...so let's stick with direct radiating subs...

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10 hours ago, CoryGillmore said:

It's all good brother! But my cheap Klispch subs I think is rated down to maybe 34hz and even it adds enough low-end grunt and impact to be worth having hooked up!

 

If money and space were no object I'd have a JL Fathom beside each Cornwall. 


The reason I'm stuck on REL is I find those drivers intoxicating to look at and SPACE! Out of curiosity, which subs would you guys get at $1500 each? 

So a little more information is needed for a good recommendation-- seems you're stuck on a couple key points you want a stereo pair and they have to be fairly small, budget at $3k. Are these for music only or mix with TV duty? How loud do you listen? Are you looking for car stereo level of bass performance? Would you consider / could you fit a larger single subwoofer? If you cross the sub over at 50hz or less the bass is non-directional and the LFE input blends both channels-- if you could fit a single larger sub between the Cornwalls and cross them over at 40-50hz you could get a sub that reaches down to 20hz no problem with probably 4x's the output of the REL's. 

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2 hours ago, boom3 said:

I have four Cornwall IIs, and a sub that crosses over at 60 Hz. The benefit is not just "more bass" but the reduction of excursion for the Cornwall woofers reduces the already low bass distortion even further.

FINALLY! Someone who totally "gets it!!"

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11 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

FINALLY! Someone who totally "gets it!!"

There's more than one way to get there bud-- I myself refuse to neuter my speakers especially when my typical listening levels are at less than half a watt not a lot of excursion to limit but cutting lower frequencies has a dramatic effect on the sound and impact. 

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13 hours ago, CoryGillmore said:

I

 

Out of curiosity, which subs would you guys get at $1500 each? Maybe I'll reconsider....I don't have space for folded or tapped horns though...so let's stick with direct radiating subs...

One sub brand worth looking into is Rythmik.  This one, hits your price point, it's sealed, has a 15" driver and is spec'd at 3db down at 14 hz.  They also hold their value very well when the desire to sell arises.

 

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP.html 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Shiva said:

One sub brand worth looking into is Rythmik.  This one, hits your price point, it's sealed, has a 15" driver and is spec'd at 3db down at 14 hz.  They also hold their value very well when the desire to sell arises.

 

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP.html 

 

 

Says you won't even hear it running but words it differently, natural must mean no impact ?

That's what I hear unless you have a floor to ceiling stack of sealed subs.

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16 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Hate to rain on this parade, but SVS subs are Expensive Toy Subs compared to Serious Tapped Horn designs, or the Fitzmaurice THT's yo can have someone build for you for half the money.

hate to rain on this parade but SVS are far from toy subs, their mid to upper end subs are very good & competitive to other brands at the same price points & they get very good reviews from practically everyone that hears or owns them.  thats fine if you or the other naysayers dont like them, have you ever heard a good SVS sub? strange how so many others love them but a couple on here feel the need to constantly bash them or compare them to subs 2-3 times their size or of a different design.  :rolleyes:

 

& as i mention every time i suggest them, of course there are better subs, nobody is claiming SVS are the best or better than HUGE horn loaded subs you need to build. not everyone needs that type of sub nor can they fit them in their rooms, most people have space limitations or WAF to consider & they dont want to build a sub or pay someone to do it & run external amps & crossovers etc etc.  SVS has many benefits i mentioned above that no other sub company or DIY sub has, that is why i suggest them & based on my experience even their mid level subs are as good or better than many other similar priced  brands or almost any klipsch sub of comparable price new or used. 

 

also consider used SVS for less money than new, i bought my sb2000 for $400ea with 3 years of transferable warranty left & the Sb3000 is one of their best bang for the buck mid level subs & can be bought new on their outlet store for $999 & usually $750-800 used.  just a suggestion to consider for a small sub with very good specs & performance.   sounds like the OP was impressed with the cheap small klipsch subs with his cornwalls, i suggested SVS for a good performance increase & all the other benefits they offer. he clearly stated he doesnt have space for huge horn or ported subs...try & keep things in perspective for what hes asking about. 

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Same experience here. I always feel happy about not needing a sub until i bring one in and you go "oh. so that's full range" and you can't go back.  I have my RSW-15 at 60hz with my CF-4 and CF-3s though. That RSW-15 is old now, but Klipsch sure got it right with that model. The only time i didn't use it was with KHorns except for movies.  I didn't have the RSW-15s when i had my 4 split pro La Scalas so i lived with the limited low end, but that mid bass was oh so snappy and fast. I think i liked those pro woofers better for the mid bass even though they didn't go as low.

I'd sure love to go back to KHorns or La Scalas(or Jubescalas!) with that KPT-1502 or 1802.

 

I chose 60hz because i also watch movies in 2.1. Would a 40hz crossover be too low for movies? I wouldn't want to run these woofers too hard. I don't use an AVR, i have the subs directly into my "for sub system" outputs on my Accuphase C-280v

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The question is not do I need a sub, the question is how many. Not that AVS is gospel, but the consensus over there seems to be that you get distinct benefits from every sub up to 4.

Having heard SVS (admittedly a long time ago) and Klipsch subs, there is no comparison, SVS are far, far superior. Partly that is because Klipsch subs are terrible. I compared the SVS and ended up buying 18 inch CHT subs (6 of them) 6 was overkill and now I am down to only 2, but will ultimately have 4 when I get a new amp.

But yeah, get your sub from a company that specializes in subs, like SVS or HSU. You can't go wrong getting 2-4 subs, IMO, and this definitely applies to Heresy owners.

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There's more than one way to get there bud-- I myself refuse to neuter my speakers especially when my typical listening levels are at less than half a watt not a lot of excursion to limit but cutting lower frequencies has a dramatic effect on the sound and impact. 
I feel the same about my 30's. It would be a shame to cut the nuts off of the 40hz bass those things can pound out so tight and punchy. My horn loaded subs simply fill in below that to roughly 20hz and it's seamless.

I've had some SVS subs. I liked them mainly for HT. The Ultra subs I had were bad ***. They were ok for two-channel but I could never seem to fully get rid of the rumble. THT's are just flat out superior when it comes to music playback. Smooth and seriously powerful if called upon to do so. Yeah they're big but if stood upright the footprint is only 15x18. I'm talking about the THTLP. Paint the suckers flat black and stick em in a corner and that's all she wrote.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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11 hours ago, jjptkd said:

There's more than one way to get there bud-- I myself refuse to neuter my speakers especially when my typical listening levels are at less than half a watt not a lot of excursion to limit but cutting lower frequencies has a dramatic effect on the sound and impact. 

This is exactly my sentiments. I will not be high pass filtering my mains. My amp doesn't even allow such foolery. Any bass management will be managed on the subs themselves. 

 

13 hours ago, jjptkd said:

So a little more information is needed for a good recommendation-- seems you're stuck on a couple key points you want a stereo pair and they have to be fairly small, budget at $3k. Are these for music only or mix with TV duty? How loud do you listen? Are you looking for car stereo level of bass performance? Would you consider / could you fit a larger single subwoofer? If you cross the sub over at 50hz or less the bass is non-directional and the LFE input blends both channels-- if you could fit a single larger sub between the Cornwalls and cross them over at 40-50hz you could get a sub that reaches down to 20hz no problem with probably 4x's the output of the REL's. 

Yes definitely a stereo pair. Music is what's most important. So, a sealed design is preferable. I'm totally happy with the sound I have now. I just want something prettier and nicer, more on the same level as my Cornwall IVs. Damn doesn't anyone make wood veneer subs anymore? 

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15 hours ago, CoryGillmore said:

 I'm totally happy with the sound I have now. I just want something prettier and nicer, more on the same level as my Cornwall IVs. Damn doesn't anyone make wood veneer subs anymore? 

Although the Klipsch r-112sw's aren't much nicer to look at I believe their performance would be a notable step up from what you have now and at $394 each from Crutchfield and a 60 day hassle free return policy it might be a way to go. I spent several hours listening to mine last night even cranked it up a bit and the sub did not stumble or disappoint in the slightest, I believe two of these would easily keep up with your Cornwalls even pushed pretty hard.

 

Specs of the 112 vs the 12: -3db point at 24hz vs 29hz, 118db max output vs 116 (4db louder with a pair more than twice as loud,) 300 watts rms vs 200, front slot port vs rear round port and 48lbs vs 33 lbs. They are pretty much identical in size / shape. 

 

I just got an email notification from RSL about the availability of their Speedwoofer 10 looks like late March I think I'll order one if I get the chance:

 

https://rslspeakers.com/10s-mkii-coming-soon/

 

 

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brand bashing= "SVS are toy subs"...

 

& awhile ago i asked about comparing a single SVS sb13ultra to dual sb2000s & got nothing but claiming those SVS models wouldnt work with my chorus 2 because they are "big boy" speakers & i need huge 15" ported sub(s) or horn loaded subs or nothing at all... LOL. 

 

fact is a good smaller or sealed sub can help almost any speaker by adding the lower octave the speaker cant produce or lacks, doesnt have to be huge impact, a subtle fill in of those <~35-40hz frequecies makes a very noticeable difference.  & saying "you wont hear it" means it will disappear with the system when set up right, thats kind of the goal is to not be able to localize a sub, not have it over power the main speakers.

 

everyone has different needs & tastes for their system, if you have the room, need & $ for a big sub by all means get one or 2 or 3, but claiming a good smaller sub or 2 wont improve most speakers or that you need a floor to ceiling stack of sealed subs is flat out wrong.   

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14 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Don't worry, I have toy subs also and I'm fully content.  More than one way to skin a cat.   If you love it, all that matters. 

 

thanks.  im far from worried & more than happy with what my dual sb2000 toy subs do for music & movies in a medium sized 21x16 room. & they arent even dialed in yet, just basic tuning & placement thats less than ideal.  its actually a huge improvement over just the speakers, i listen to classic/modern rock & some heavier metal type music that doesnt really have super low bass & these fill in & add to the above ~40hz very well, & with more bass heavy electronic rock music they really come alive & fill the entire room with tight deep bass. 

 

ive owned lots of subs over the years & always preferred sealed for music & been happy with them for movies.  back in the day i owned velodyne servo F series subs, they are sealed & were incredible for the lower power amps they had.  im sure bigger or ported subs will have more max DB but myself & many others dont want or need max DB. 

 

like west coast said, all that really matters in this or any hobby is that you are happy with what you have.

 

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