svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 12 hours ago, CoryGillmore said: Why is the LaScala one of the weakest bass outputting speakers that Klipsch makes? I mean damn the thing has a 15" sub in a folded horn cabinet (which is massive, btw) and it outputs less bass than a Cornwall with the same sub in a direct radiating config. I never understood it. With proper placement and amplification my La Scala's bass is every bit as satisfying and deep as my Cornwall's. YMMV... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryGillmore Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: The "damn thing" doe NOT have a 15" Sub. It's a woofer driver, not a Subwoofer driver. The short horn is a 104 Hz. horn, which creates a +8db Acoustic Air Transformer with narrow bandwidth being traded for the boost. All horns are narrow band devices. That's the trade you make to get higher sensitivity, higher output, and lower distortion. This is why modern horn systems are either 4 -way or in the case of the Jubilee, a 2-way with lots of Digital EQ. Harkens a bit to the old Bose 901, where, without the bass and treble boost to make it work, you had bunch of midrange drivers with severe rolloff at both ends. PWK used it as the best example of Gross Intermodulation Distortion, which does not occur in big horns with big drivers designed specifically to drive a horn. I gotcha. A 15" woofer. Is it the exact same driver the CW uses? From what I hear from other people, it doesn't reach as low or have the impact of a Cornwall. While being much more massive than a Cornwall. It just seems like a flawed design, in the case of the La Scala specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, svberger said: With proper placement and amplification my La Scala's bass is every bit as satisfying and deep as my Cornwall's. YMMV... I find that hard to believe.... Does none else have that same point of view? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said: I find that hard to believe.... Does none else have that same point of view? Others have similar point of views. If you do a search you'll see some. People listen with different gear, rooms, ears, and preferences when it comes to music and how they want it to sound. My system is also set up for 2 channel only. And for me, in my room with my gear(Mac MC30's/MX110z pre...) with the LS's in corners my bass is everything that I want. And the overall tonal character of the LS is much more to my liking then the Cornwall which comes off a bit thicker then I would prefer. Like I said, "YMMV"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Understood. But to be clear, what I meant specifically was that a La scala's bass cannot be as deep as a Cornwalls... It may be satisfying and just right though, yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 15 hours ago, CoryGillmore said: When I saw Tool in January 2020, just before covid really took off in the US, I thought it was too damn loud and the treble was hot as hell. Everyone always talked about how incredible Tool sounded live but I was like "nah it sounds better on my headphone rigs" and now that I have a competent 2-channel setup there's no comparison. I wish I had taken a db reading at the concert. But yeah it felt like I had cotton in my ears the rest of the night. I saw Post Malone at the same venue a month later and I thought he sounded better and my ears didn't feel like they were stuffed afterwards. And I'm a HUGE Tool fan.... im a huge tool fan, probably in my top 3 favorite bands for heavier rock. ive seen them 4 times, i skipped the show before covid since it was so expensive & i wasnt a big fan of their recent ambum to justify seeing them. the earlier shows werent as loud but the last one i went to for 10,000 days album was like you explained, but we did sit dead center on the first row of the balcony that all the big overhead speakers were pointing at to fill sound in to teh nose bleed areas... actually tickled my ears on some of the loudest peaks, & not in a good way. the show in the 80s was motley crue & i was about 13 years old, i think they tied or did set a record but im sure thats been beat by now. was quite the experience for me at such a young age, but today i prefer medium level volumes but with strong full bass. no need or desire to hit even 120s for peaks on bass or mids, i prefer to keep my hearing for the next half of my life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said: Understood. But to be clear, what I meant specifically was that a La scala's bass cannot be as deep as a Cornwalls... It may be satisfying and just right though, yes agreed, iv spent a lot of time with lascalas when my sisters x-boyfriend bought a pair brand new, pushed by 200w adcom amp, they were very loud but lacked any real lower bass. most those comments about people saying lascalas have all the bass they need, have usually never heard them with a good sub or a good full range speaker that doesnt drop off at at upper 40h or 50z! 2 hours ago, svberger said: People listen with different gear, rooms, ears, and preferences when it comes to music and how they want it to sound. bingo! thats what ive been trying to point out in this thread & many others where people get into debates or arguments over speakers or bass or amps etc, everyone wants & needs & likes different things, if youre happy with your lascalas thats all that matters, but realize that they are not producing the lower octaves possible with a good sub... of any type. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said: realize that they are not producing the lower octaves possible with a good sub... of any type. Correct 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 29 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said: agreed, iv spent a lot of time with lascalas when my sisters x-boyfriend bought a pair brand new, pushed by 200w adcom amp, they were very loud but lacked any real lower bass. most those comments about people saying lascalas have all the bass they need, have usually never heard them with a good sub or a good full range speaker that doesnt drop off at at upper 40h or 50z! bingo! thats what ive been trying to point out in this thread & many others where people get into debates or arguments over speakers or bass or amps etc, every wants & needs & likes different things, if youre happy with your lascalas thats all that matters, but realize that they are not producing the lower octaves possible with a good sub... of any type. Fair enough. Not at all important to me, but fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryGillmore Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, svberger said: Fair enough. Not at all important to me, but fair enough. You're saying the lower octaves of bass aren't important to you? I couldn't imagine living with less bass than a pair of Cornwall IVs with no sub. I enjoyed CW IVs for months with no subs, but now that I've added even a cheap pair of big box store subs, I'd have a hard time going back. You don't realize what you're missing until you hear it yourself in your system. Truly an "ignorance is bliss" scenario haha. You owe it to yourself to get a couple subs on your La Scalas. Even a pair of the aforementioned Klipsch SPL 12" subs would add MUCH to your enjoyment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 52 minutes ago, CoryGillmore said: You're saying the lower octaves of bass aren't important to you? I couldn't imagine living with less bass than a pair of Cornwall IVs with no sub. I enjoyed CW IVs for months with no subs, but now that I've added even a cheap pair of big box store subs, I'd have a hard time going back. You don't realize what you're missing until you hear it yourself in your system. Truly an "ignorance is bliss" scenario haha. You owe it to yourself to get a couple subs on your La Scalas. Even a pair of the aforementioned Klipsch SPL 12" subs would add MUCH to your enjoyment. I'm 65. I've been an active music fan and player for over 50 years. I know what good bass sounds like to me. I don't listen to much of today's bass heavy music, and like I said I don't do home theater either. I've had more speakers then I can remember, from the cheap to the very expensive. That goes for gear as well. I've listened to amazing systems in amazing homes and in stores. And unless you're my age, I'm guessing I've been to a lot more concerts then you. So the bottom line is what I want to hear is being heard. I know it's a tough one for you to swallow, but I get chest thumping bass out of the LS's. Not at quiet volumes for sure. But when I want to turn up the amps and listen to something that should be listened to loudly, I do, and I hear and feel the bass. Real bass. Using a sub to provide me with more of that, or perhaps a few more octaves that I don't miss will be wasted on me. I've tried them, I've heard them, and I'm not a fan. If you are, great. More power to you, my friend. We all listen differently, and I learned a long time ago not to criticize or belittle those that don't do it like me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 hours ago, svberger said: And the overall tonal character of the LS is much more to my liking then the Cornwall which comes off a bit thicker then I would prefer. Like I said, "YMMV"... one word: CURVES (to show the Exact Mileage that veies between the 2), instead of "Emotional Testing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, svberger said: I've been an active music fan and player for over 50 years. I know what good bass sounds like to me. You prefer lower distortion, faster transient response, over the "resonant bass" from a Cornwall's bass reflex design using the same driver. No putdowns from my camp. Remember Paul Klipsch created the Belle as a "pretty" version of a LaScala to use between his Klipshorns at home because the Cornwall it replaced was of higher distortion. Lower distortion is the strengths of horns, which is, more specifically, what you prefer. You have lots of company in that floating boat! Isn't Personal Preference wonderful? But I have to point out that the O.P. was about Cornwalls and Subs, which seldom needs them, and it turned into an "I prefer my LaScalas as is." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: one word: CURVES (to show the Exact Mileage that veies between the 2), instead of "Emotional Testing." . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, svberger said: Two words: Don't care. Don't care for the FACTS, yes. Much like I don't care about your opinion, which is off topic anyhow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just now, ClaudeJ1 said: Don't care for the FACTS, yes. Much like I don't care about your opinion. The facts that are important to me is what I hear, and what I like. We're discussing a hobby here. I'm only doing this for myself. What difference does anything else make other then what makes me happy? As for not caring for my opinion, no worries. It wasn't put out there for you or anybody else to care about it. Rather, just contributing to an ongoing discussion. Enjoy your day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: You prefer lower distortion, faster transient response, over the "resonant bass" from a Cornwall's bass reflex design using the same driver. No putdowns from my camp. Remember Paul Klipsch created the Belle as a "pretty" version of a LaScala to use between his Klipshorns at home because the Cornwall it replaced was of higher distortion. Lower distortion is the strengths of horns, which is, more specifically, what you prefer. You have lots of company in that floating boat! Isn't Personal Preference wonderful? But I have to point out that the O.P. was about Cornwalls and Subs, which seldom needs them, and it turned into an "I prefer my LaScalas as is." Well people were discussing La Scala's and the lack of bass, so I contributed my .02. That's all. I'll leave it alone from here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 It is entirely your business about the subs or not. Not sure about why you are discussing it here on subwoofer thread. You cannot win! Convinced myself, I seek not to convince. Enjoy your system... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, billybob said: It is entirely your business about the subs or not. Not sure about why you are discussing it here on subwoofer thread. You cannot win! Convinced myself, I seek not to convince. Enjoy your system... You're right. I got drawn in by the La Scala's and their lack of bass comments. My mistake. Live and learn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryGillmore Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, svberger said: Well people were discussing La Scala's and the lack of bass, so I contributed my .02. That's all. I'll leave it alone from here. He was definitely agreeing with you..I don't understand why you're being snarky with him... EDIT: Ah nevermind, I see you were more responding to his last sentence in that post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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