My (Ma)Roon(ed) Experience

[pbphoto]

1 hour ago, artto said:

Thanks Guys!

 

So, if I'm understanding this correctly (another Duh moment), the BluOS MDC module is basically just a Network Interface Card (NIC). The PC and M32 (via BluOS card) are connected together using a good old fashioned pier to pier network like in the old days (just connect 2 computers together with an Ethernet cable). Essentially, the Ethernet cables are replacing what would otherwise be interconnect cables (RCA or XLR) or HDMI, TOSLINK, etc.

Yes, the MDC is a "smart NIC" that runs BluOS as well as built-in code from Roon (it's a Roon ready device) that allows Roon Core to stream music directly to it via Roon's proprietary streaming protocol (RAAT) over TCP/IP.  Note when you have it setup this way, you may see two entries for the MDC in Roon under settings-audio - one "roon ready" entry and one under "other roon devices" via Airplay.  I believe the MDC supports Airplay and so does Roon.  You want to enable the "roon ready" device.

 

[Islander]

On 2/9/2022 at 1:08 PM, artto said:

I really don't like whatever Klipsch has done with the website - seems very problematic lately.

 

I uploaded the screen shot but it's not showing up. It says I'm past my upload limit. I deleted all of the recent uploads. Somehow it thinks the re-sized JPG file is still 8MB after I re-sized it to 1.7MB

 

FWIW, in plain English it says:

 

Signal path: High Quality

FLAC Source FLAC 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch

 

This PC  Roon Advanced Audio Transport

 

System Output   OS Mixer

 

 

To print images, you need at least 1 mB of data, but for screen use, 400-500 kB is plenty, and even allows some zooming in.  If your image doesn’t need any zooming in, even a 200 kB image can look fine onscreen.  When I switched from film to digital, this amazed me, but that’s how it is.

[artto]

Thanks for the tip! Good to know.

[artto]

Well, I've got it hooked the way it's supposed to be. Roon recognizes the M32 and I enabled it.

 

BUT, playback is only through the laptop's speakers. No other output options are shown in Windows. The Roon Signal Path is still the same, and has green dots, Output is still OS Mixer.

 

This shouldn't be this much trouble, especially when I have no need or intention of sending any of this music anywhere else in the house to other playback devices and I'm the only user.

[artto]

Alright.

 

I decided to disable Realtek HD Audio (default for laptop audio). Still didn't work.

 

Then went into Roon Device Setup, had to re-select M32 from Device Setup even though Roon said it was already Enabled.

 

Now I have the bright purple dots and Roon is playing thru the system.

 

Haven't done any serious listening yet. But at least I'm pretty sure it's connected the way it's supposed to be.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help. I'll report later on the sound quality. It's Friday Night. TIME TO ROCK 🎸

[Cicerogue]

On most screens of the Roon remote interface, there is a speaker icon bottom right.  Select that to bring up a menu.  There, you will see a pair of arrows icon.  Select that to transfer the signal to any device you have enabled.  It defaulted to the Realtek device even after you had everything else connected properly.

If you are satusfied with the sound, you can then experiment with running it via wifi to see if the sound is better, worse or the same.  Different people report different results.

[Marvel]

artto, in case you ever need it, Realtek has an ASIO driver for their chipsets. Not sure if it works for all, but it's available.

[artto]

7 minutes ago, Marvel said:

artto, in case you ever need it, Realtek has an ASIO driver for their chipsets. Not sure if it works for all, but it's available.

Thanks Bruce. Yes, I know, I have a Focusrite 18i/20 that uses WASAPI and ASIO. So does my (Sony) pro recording/mastering software. Roon recognized the Focusrite. I suspect I'll have to manually enable it in Roon Device Setup just like the M32. My laptop is probably 8 years old (Win 8.1). Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Marvel]

Is that Soundforge or Vegas, by chance?

[artto]

1 hour ago, Marvel said:

Is that Soundforge or Vegas, by chance?

 👍 Soundforge and Acid. Acid for multi-track recording, Soundforge for editing/mastering

 

(shameless plug) You can find some of my recordings here:

https://gewchorale.org/shop/recordings

 

These are all "different" in terms of recording technique and I don't remember which ones are best, LOL.

[artto]

It wasn’t my intention, but I wound up using Roon for all my listening last night, mostly recordings ripped from my CD collection on the laptop.

 

My initial impression (without any direct comparison) is that Roon with its Ethernet connection directly into the NAD M32 BluOS module is superior to using J River and an HDMI connection from PC to M32. I’ve preferred HDMI over USB. I have to admit last night was a real eye (ear) opener. Quite enjoyable.

 

I started out playing a few tracks from MA Recordings SACD sampler, MAonSA. Then quite a few tracks from AudiogoN’s Wake Up Your Ears” Chesky Records sampler. Outstanding! Then a MFSL Master release of Cannonball Adderley/Miles Davis “Something Else”.

 

Roon found and made some recommendations (on Tidal) based on what I had been listening to from my local music and I must admit they were spot on. I marked them as favorites for further listening later on. Roon’s metadata collection for my local albums (like the Chesky sampler) was very impressive and presented with excellent graphics/aesthetics.

 

I intended to do the traditional Friday night “rock out” listening session but it obviously didn’t turn out that way. And that’s a good thing because it’s indicative that I was very engaged listening to a lot I haven’t heard in a while, with at least the initial impression that it was coming across better than I remember, and certainly nothing like the initial Roon experience.

 

Of course I still had to “rock out” for a while so finished up with a couple tunes from Tool’s first album “Undertow”. Yeah Baby!!!!

 

One peculiar thing I noticed so far (not verified) using Roon, it *seems” as though I can tolerate a higher SPL with Roon playing the same tracks than I would from PC via HDMI or streaming from Tidal. Not sure what might be causing this. As much as I hate to use this analogy, it was sort of like using a modern McIntosh amplifier. It sort of took a very slight edge off at higher SPL.

 

I haven’t used any Roon DSP yet although that was my main interest in using Roon. With J River I previously used Isotope Ozone mastering software plug-in. I stopped using it after a while because it seemed to overtax my laptop, often slightly degrading overall sound quality (the cure was worse than the disease). I won’t be surprised if Roon does the same thing. If so, I guess it will be time for an Intel i7 NUC.

[Rudy81]

I hope it's ok if I jump in on this discussion.  I currently use Jriver MC and have used it for many years.  If I understand you guys correctly, Roon can send my music library to any endpoint that is connected on my home network....is that correct?  

 

Currently, I have a dedicated Windows PC with the OS on a SSD and two 10TB drives with music on them. Currently, the pc is connected to my Integra DHC via HDMI in my media room.

 

Would Roon, installed in the same windows computer provide me with better capability in my entire home?  I'm researching all this right now, but it has peaked my interest.  Is there anything for me to gain by learning to use Roon, not to mention the monthly fees?

 

 

[artto]

28 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

I hope it's ok if I jump in on this discussion.  I currently use Jriver MC and have used it for many years.  If I understand you guys correctly, Roon can send my music library to any endpoint that is connected on my home network....is that correct?  

 

Currently, I have a dedicated Windows PC with the OS on a SSD and two 10TB drives with music on them. Currently, the pc is connected to my Integra DHC via HDMI in my media room.

 

Would Roon, installed in the same windows computer provide me with better capability in my entire home?  I'm researching all this right now, but it has peaked my interest.  Is there anything for me to gain by learning to use Roon, not to mention the monthly fees?

 

 

I'm probably not best qualified to answer this since I too am in the learning curve. But from what I understand so far, the answer to your question is probably YES. But the catch is, the local area network. The LAN now becomes your connections between components (instead of interconnect cables - RCA, XLR, HDMI, etc). In my case the NAD M32 with BluOS module installed allows for Ethernet connection directly into the amplifier. I imagine most current HT receivers have this capability. Most "stereo" amplifiers do not.

 

And yes, Roon will gather everything, all your locally stored music files, internet radio stations, subscription music services such as Tidal or Quboz, and "consolidate" them. For instance, when using Roon, if I'm looking at music under the heading (tab) "albums", Roon shows my favorite albums I tagged on Tidal as well as what's on my PC hard drive, in alphabetical order, and indicates where it's from (ie: Tidal)

 

The other thing I liked was that Roon also showed the file Format (FLAC or WAV, MP3, etc), the bit depth and sample rate, with or without MQA. Sort of let's you know "what you're getting" or what you actually have.

[Rudy81]

I do find that Roon has some very nice features. For example, it works better with identical albums at higher bit rates and file formats.  I need to figure out how it works over the LAN on devices that are not Roon certified.  Very interesting.  May just play with the two week trial and see what happens.

[artto]

30 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

I hope it's ok if I jump in on this discussion.  I currently use Jriver MC and have used it for many years.  If I understand you guys correctly, Roon can send my music library to any endpoint that is connected on my home network....is that correct?  

 

Currently, I have a dedicated Windows PC with the OS on a SSD and two 10TB drives with music on them. Currently, the pc is connected to my Integra DHC via HDMI in my media room. You'll have to ditch HDMI and connect via Ethernet on your LAN (possibly Wi-Fi. Haven't tested for quality/reliability yet. That's probably dependent on your Wi-Fi speed/coverage)

 

Would Roon, installed in the same windows computer provide me with better capability in my entire home? IMHO Yes. I'm researching all this right now, but it has peaked my interest.  Is there anything for me to gain by learning to use Roon, not to mention the monthly fees? So far, I have the impression it's providing better sound quality, and certainly more flexibility. More "all-in-one" access type of thing.

 

 

[artto]

10 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

I do find that Roon has some very nice features. For example, it works better with identical albums at higher bit rates and file formats.  I need to figure out how it works over the LAN on devices that are not Roon certified.  Very interesting.  May just play with the two week trial and see what happens.

Since I was having some issues, and contacted Roon, they offered to extend the trial period. Since it's taken a week (half of the trial period) just to get this far I'm probably going to force the issue with them and ask for a full 30 day trial. IMHO, a product like this really should have a longer trial period. I mean really, I had to get some extra components, and with current supply chain issues, it could take someone even longer to get Roon set up if they have to order Ethernet cable or switches online.

[Rudy81]

I think I have figured some of this out.  This really seems to be a nice system with many capabilities. In my case, install Roon on my Windows 10 pc, which also contains my music files.  This then becomes the roon core and music server.  The core will search around my network and find any roon capable endpoint.  In the case of my downstairs receiver, although older and not roon ready, I can add a Chromecast dongle and roon will send audio to it via wireless, or preferably a wired LAN connection. All can be controlled by an iPhone, iPad, Android, pc, etc.  Very nice indeed.  

[pbphoto]

Just a few comments on the posts above from today.  Yes, Roon can suck in your local library, as well as your Tidal and Qobuz accounts, and internet radio, apply really good meta data to it in it's own local DB, and then stream it out to any supported Roon endpoint (roon ready, roon tested, airplay, sonus, chromecast...).  All controlled from an App.  It supports any music format I can think of.

 

Roon can be configured to send the original data bits without any modification to those endpoints, or it can apply just about any amount of fuckery you desire:  SRC, DSP, EQ, convolution filters....  Jriver and Audirvana can do this too - they may have any edge with izotope SRC but they lack the metadata DB that Roon has.  That is the real value of Roon - it's metadata, hyperlinks, recommendations - it opens up whole new worlds (especially if you have it linked to Tidal or Qobuz.)

 

I've been using Roon for 4 years now.  I came from iTunes and Audirvana.  It took me at least a month to get used to Roon.  Roon would prefer you use "tags" but I still create playlists and my Qobuz playlists also sync up with Roon.  When I first told Roon to import my local music library, it got about 75% correct. I had to spend a lot of time going through my Albums to edit metadata.  Roon does have a lot of import preferences to help this process now and has come a long way.  Just an FYI.

[rplace]

@Rudy81 and @artto if you haven't stumbled upon this yet, go to home screen, scroll down to discover. Now sit back and waste a few hours. If you have a large library locally the music you've collected over your lifetime this is a great way to ReDiscover it. Everytime you go back it will be different.

 

You will see different size tiles with things like released this month for various years, Featured artists featured performers, etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rudy81]

Very interesting system.  I'll see when I have some free time to work on this.