Jump to content

Adding EQ with La Scala's


svberger
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok as some who might read this thread have read in other threads, I like my '77 stock LS's just fine. They're perfect in every way, and I have no wish to modify them(although still considering a pair of Crites' AA XO's more for experimentation then because I need a change) and no wish for more bass or subs.

 

The preamble out of the way, I own this device described below that was designed by Roy Allison for his line  of closed box speakers, as well as other similar speakers(AR, for example) to produce a flat response down to 20Hz. I've thought about experimenting with it, and it's different settings to see how it would sound. Some in the past have discouraged such use for the LS's saying it's dangerous because it's not a closed box system. Others, including owners of LS's have indicated that experimenting carefully should be fine. I use McIntosh MC30 amps at reasonable volumes so the risk to the speaker/woofer would seem pretty much non-existent. But figured I'd ask for a few more opinions.

 

To repeat, I don't want a separate subwoofer. I just want to see if it's possible to extend the bass response in the speaker using this device.

 

Thanks.

 

spacer.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok as some who might read this thread have read in other threads, I like my '77 stock LS's just fine. They're perfect in every way, and I have no wish to modify them(although still considering a pair of Crites' AA XO's more for experimentation then because I need a change) and no wish for more bass or subs.
 
The preamble out of the way, I own this device described below that was designed by Roy Allison for his line  of closed box speakers, as well as other similar speakers(AR, for example) to produce a flat response down to 20Hz. I've thought about experimenting with it, and it's different settings to see how it would sound. Some in the past have discouraged such use for the LS's saying it's dangerous because it's not a closed box system. Others, including owners of LS's have indicated that experimenting carefully should be fine. I use McIntosh MC30 amps at reasonable volumes so the risk to the speaker/woofer would seem pretty much non-existent. But figured I'd ask for a few more opinions.
 
To repeat, I don't want a separate subwoofer. I just want to see if it's possible to extend the bass response in the speaker using this device.
 
Thanks.
 
post-101828-1241040398.jpg

No. They go down so far and that’s it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok as some who might read this thread have read in other threads, I like my '77 stock LS's just fine. They're perfect in every way, and I have no wish to modify them(although still considering a pair of Crites' AA XO's more for experimentation then because I need a change) and no wish for more bass or subs.
 
The preamble out of the way, I own this device described below that was designed by Roy Allison for his line  of closed box speakers, as well as other similar speakers(AR, for example) to produce a flat response down to 20Hz. I've thought about experimenting with it, and it's different settings to see how it would sound. Some in the past have discouraged such use for the LS's saying it's dangerous because it's not a closed box system. Others, including owners of LS's have indicated that experimenting carefully should be fine. I use McIntosh MC30 amps at reasonable volumes so the risk to the speaker/woofer would seem pretty much non-existent. But figured I'd ask for a few more opinions.
 
To repeat, I don't want a separate subwoofer. I just want to see if it's possible to extend the bass response in the speaker using this device.
 
Thanks.
 
post-101828-1241040398.jpg

No. They go down so far and that’s it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm confused. If you have no wish for "more bass", why do you even want to bother with such a device? No amount of EQ is going to make them go lower. You might only increase output where they already go. But you said you don't want "more".

 

I still contend that you have two choices. (Well three if you count the ported box mod).

 

Live with the bass as is.

 

Add subwoofer(s).

 

Oh, and one more I forgot. Dump them and move on. I assume that's not one you would consider.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, svberger said:

The preamble out of the way, I own this device ...     I just want to see if it's possible to extend the bass response in the speaker using this device.

 

I don't have one to hook up and answer your question. Can you plug yours in and let us know?

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

I guess I'm confused. If you have no wish for "more bass", why do you even want to bother with such a device? No amount of EQ is going to make them go lower. You might only increase output where they already go. But you said you don't want "more".

 

I still contend that you have two choices. (Well three if you count the ported box mod).

 

Live with the bass as is.

 

Add subwoofer(s).

 

Oh, and one more I forgot. Dump them and move on. I assume that's not one you would consider.

I knew I'd confuse people with this thread, and that was not my meaning. I have this device, and was considering experimenting with it. That's all. I just didn't want to hurt the speakers in using it and that's why I asked the original question. Guess I should've been clearer.

 

My original statement stands. The speakers to my ears are fine as is. More then fine. I'm perfectly happy to live with the bass as is.

 

I have stuff and I like to experiment sometimes.

 

There, hopefully that will clear that up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although you already have it, I would not think it a good idea to give 14db of boost at 20Hz. Unless you are trying it at night for low level listening.

 

Another option, if you could find one, is to locate a Waves MaxxBass 102. It uses the effect of two frequencies generating the fundamental frequency... Waves quit making them, but they come up for sale every so often.

'''

The clever designers of the Waves MaxxBass 102 have figured out how to make physics work for them, using a phenomenon known as the Law of the Missing Fundamental. The Waves MaxxBass 102 convinces the ear that it hears frequencies lower than those a speaker is actually generating. Long used by pipe-organ composers to produce gut-wrenchingly deep notes, this principle states that if you play two closely spaced pitches, the ear perceives a third tone at what is called the "difference frequency." Simultaneously playing a 110-Hz A and a 165-Hz E, for example, creates the illusion of an octave-lower A at 55 Hz.

Waves MaxxBass 102 uses this psychoacoustic effect to extend the low end of car stereos, portable music players, and even audio CDs. Waves MaxxBass 102 has also begun appearing in computer speakers such as Waves' own Maxx Home MiniWoofer. It's virtually impossible in the labs to differentiate between physically real sound and MaxxBass-generated output. Furthermore, because these virtual waveforms exist only in your head, MaxxBass speakers aren't nearly as vulnerable to the acoustic effects of room placement.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Although you already have it, I would not think it a good idea to give 14db of boost at 20Hz. Unless you are trying it at night for low level listening.

 

Another option, if you could find one, is to locate a Waves MaxxBass 102. It uses the effect of two frequencies generating the fundamental frequency... Waves quit making them, but they come up for sale every so often.

'''

The clever designers of the Waves MaxxBass 102 have figured out how to make physics work for them, using a phenomenon known as the Law of the Missing Fundamental. The Waves MaxxBass 102 convinces the ear that it hears frequencies lower than those a speaker is actually generating. Long used by pipe-organ composers to produce gut-wrenchingly deep notes, this principle states that if you play two closely spaced pitches, the ear perceives a third tone at what is called the "difference frequency." Simultaneously playing a 110-Hz A and a 165-Hz E, for example, creates the illusion of an octave-lower A at 55 Hz.

Waves MaxxBass 102 uses this psychoacoustic effect to extend the low end of car stereos, portable music players, and even audio CDs. Waves MaxxBass 102 has also begun appearing in computer speakers such as Waves' own Maxx Home MiniWoofer. It's virtually impossible in the labs to differentiate between physically real sound and MaxxBass-generated output. Furthermore, because these virtual waveforms exist only in your head, MaxxBass speakers aren't nearly as vulnerable to the acoustic effects of room placement.

 

 

Thanks. Appreciate your advice.

 

Don't plan on adding any additional stuff to the arsenal but thanks for the introduction to something that I was not aware of. Interesting concept.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waves replaced it with a plugin for use in the studio. Adjusted correctly, it can sound ok. It won't get you slam in the gut bass, but you will hear the lower frequencies. It's all in your head, so to speak.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adding that much boost at 20Hz to a La Scala is not recommended as stated in the owners manual for the electronic subwoofer. As it explains the type of speaker to use the device with needs to handle the amount of excursion and also control it or else the results will at best sound bad and at worst destroy the woofer.

 

You like to experiment then go for it and let us know how you make out. Just make sure you are experimenting at very low levels at first and if things sound off then just stop the experiment. If it sounds like the woofer is still in control and you don't hear any strange noises from the speaker very slowly increase the output level but I still not recommend using it at loud levels as you will risk damage. 20Hz is really getting to where you don't hear it and it's more of a feel thing, push air and shake stuff which requires lots of movement (excursion), so you may not even hear your speakers being damaged until it's too late. Wavelength increases as frequency decreases, I doubt the La Scala will sound good with this device and most likely just become boomy and bloated sounding.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Putting wings on a boat

 

LaScala is not designed for bass below 50HZ

I added a front firing sub as an experiment

I seldom feel the need to use it

 

LaScalas offer the finest human voice reproduction in the industry, IMHO

Forcing the LaScala lower may damage the speakers.

I would never do it

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Bubo said:

Putting wings on a boat

 

LaScala is not designed for bass below 50HZ

I added a front firing sub as an experiment

I seldom feel the need to use it

 

LaScalas offer the finest human voice reproduction in the industry, IMHO

Forcing the LaScala lower may damage the speakers.

I would never do it

Thank you sir. That's the kind of information I was after.

 

And I agree completely with your assessments.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

Adding that much boost at 20Hz to a La Scala is not recommended as stated in the owners manual for the electronic subwoofer. As it explains the type of speaker to use the device with needs to handle the amount of excursion and also control it or else the results will at best sound bad and at worst destroy the woofer.

 

You like to experiment then go for it and let us know how you make out. Just make sure you are experimenting at very low levels at first and if things sound off then just stop the experiment. If it sounds like the woofer is still in control and you don't hear any strange noises from the speaker very slowly increase the output level but I still not recommend using it at loud levels as you will risk damage. 20Hz is really getting to where you don't hear it and it's more of a feel thing, push air and shake stuff which requires lots of movement (excursion), so you may not even hear your speakers being damaged until it's too late. Wavelength increases as frequency decreases, I doubt the La Scala will sound good with this device and most likely just become boomy and bloated sounding.

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, svberger said:

Thanks.

Your Lascala’s are very robust and capable of playing at extreme  volume levels , most of the time there just loafing around at a watt or so, playing at no where near there capability, this gives you room for equalization  . The best  way to boost your low range a bit would be to just turn up your bass tone control , it will probably give you what you want , and limit your boost to a very safe 6 db or so ,it won’t take the place of a subwoofer, of course not , but will give you a noticeable  improvement. Lascala bass is really top notch, but it does have that one flaw , lots of speakers can play lower , but there’s a lot more to bass quality than how low they play.   Have a good one 🤓

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Marvel said:

Waves replaced it with a plugin for use in the studio. Adjusted correctly, it can sound ok. It won't get you slam in the gut bass, but you will hear the lower frequencies. It's all in your head, so to speak.

[bolding and italicizing mine -- GC]

 

1) As you may know, it is quite literally in your head -- and mine.  Some used to think it happened acoustically in the air, but back in the '70s, Scientific American published an article entitled "Auditory Beats in the Brain," using tight fitting headphones.  They found that the difference tones indeed happen in the brain, not due to any interaction of the two tones in the air of the room.  Monaural signals didn't work.  That title was changed from "Binaural Beats in the Brain" at some point.  Too bad; they lost  the alliteration, which entertained my brain, but there's too much going on in there, anyway.

 

2)I don't have a La Scala, but I do use a Belle Klipsch as a center channel.  Both used to be spec'd down to 45 Hz, but that was in the +/- 5 dB days.  And  it was in the vinyl days, when mastering engineers tended to roll off bass down there, pretty near 40 or 45 Hz, to save space for needed bass in the fff  or ffff  sfz  finale of Classical or Romantic period music.  Sometimes the record companies failed, even then, so my friends and I would crank up the bass along with the volume.  Of course, we knew how it should sound, because our traveling orchestra shook the seats and pealed the paint off many walls in many halls.  We never blew a really good woofer in a full range speaker, but we blew the woofers in a pair of medium priced speakers with Ben-Hur (1959 version), but we don't feel too bad, because, reportedly, Ted Turner did the same thing, with the same movie, with his good speakers.  The Vintage La Scala is now spec'd down to only 54 Hz (+/- 3 dB), and the New La Scala AL5 to 51 Hz (+/-4 dB)... Sooo ... I wouldn't pump up your beloved La Scalas with bass boost, even with the 48 Hz and down choice.

 

3) I know you don't want a sub, but how about one of those horn loaded DIY ones you could put in a rear corner, Xover at about 60 Hz.  They should be clean, tight, and "fast" just like the La Scala.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, garyrc said:

3) I know you don't want a sub, but how about one of those horn loaded DIY ones you could put in a rear corner, Xover at about 60 Hz.  They should be clean, tight, and "fast" just like the La Scala.

 

That's the reason so many of us end up with a separate sub woofer. Cross it over around where you said and it fill out the sound so much, you do need to be a "bass head" to love the improvement.

 

Subwoofers are just that, sub-woofer, or below the range of a woofer in a loudspeaker. It's specifically designed for long excursions with as much control as possible.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...