Sub or no sub for KLF 20's?

[Klipschtastic]

So I'm currently going through an audio equipment bug flare up where I want to try to improve my main system if I can justify it.  I have KLF 20's with a Marantz PM7000n in my living/dining room which is about 15'x 24' I believe.  I'm enjoying the set up for the most part but wondering if a nice sub could help.  I have a projector set up with it but my main priority is music.  I once tried my old Velodine 12' sub (not sure of the model but it came from Circuit City 20 years ago) and it made some difference but not enough to deal with the added complexity.  Plus it would shut off sometimes when playing loud at parties and you could barely notice its absence.  The reason I am revisiting this is because I ran across a Klipsch SPL15 on ebay that is B stock for $799.  Conversely I have considered buying a pair of KLF 30s if I can ever find any just to satisfy my curiosity, however I doubt they will make much difference from what I've read. I'm thinking the SPL150 may be the ticket to add some real value to the KLF 20 set up.  What do you all think?

[rockhound]

Yes buy a sub I'm of the opinion all Klipsch speakers can benefit from a sub or two. Nice speakers I had a set of those and KLF 30's.

[MMurg]

I figured I'd post the standard subwoofer comment I have saved for when this comes up on the Klipsch Facebook groups:
 

If you have what most speaker manufacturers would call “full-range” speakers (that reach down into the 30 - 40 Hz region), then the necessity for a sub for music will depend on what types of music you listen to and the quality of the recordings of that music.  For most pop/rock recordings it's probably unnecessary unless you have smaller speakers. However, several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others.  There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue.  Almost no so-called “full-range” speakers handle the majority of deep bass range.  Very few even reach into it with much output.  True full-range speakers that adequately handle deep bass are rare and expensive.  No Klipsch consumer speakers are true full-range speakers except the upcoming Heritage Jubilee.  So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves.  I find my subs a necessity when I listen to those types of music and have found no detriment to leaving them on for all music/movies.

[MMurg]

I also forgot to mention that I own both KLF-20 and KLF-30.  KLF-20 actually have a slightly deeper low-end response than the 30s.  I imagine this is a consequence of the slightly higher sensitivity/max SPL of the 30s.  You will not get any deeper bass by moving to KLF-30.  If you want more satisfying deep bass, you will need a sub or subs.  You will also need to integrate it/them correctly either using automated room correction like Audessey, something like a MiniDSP with a calibrated mic and REW software, or at bare minimum using a sound level meter with the test tones built into the processor.

[wuzzzer]

I'll be a Klipsch guy til the day I die but for $800 I'd suggest looking at what subs are available from SVS, RSL, Hsu or PS Audio.

[001]

simple answer,  yes.  a good sub, of any design or size, will increase the bass performance of most speakers.  the KLF20 & other larger speakers have very good bass alone but a sub will add the lower octave most speakers cant produce or not very well & will increase the bass above ~40hz. 

 

some dont feel the need for a sub even with speakers known to lack lower bass & some feel the need for big massive subs,  & there is nothing wrong with either, its all personal preference.   

[DirtyErnie]

Another vote for subs.
Almost all the 'modern' Klipsch line are ported, which does increase efficiency and lower the F3, but they also push the lowest frequencies 360° late.  My preference would be to get a sub with a very low F3 and cross that around an octave above your main speakers' F3.  Most would be in the 70-100Hz range.

[Iteachstem]

Hello,

 

I always say yes to subs if done correctly. (unless it's a vinyl only system)

 

I have RF-83's and RF-7 II's, and even though they are very capable full range speakers rated to 29hz and 30hz respectively, I always runs subs with them for several reasons.

 

1) When listening at reference levels, there's not an issue, but when listening quietly, our ears perceive a loss of bass volume.  This is augmented by the addition of a sub to fill in the bottom end.   Most of my listening now that I'm well into my 40's is at lower volume levels.

 

2) On the rare occasion I feel like reliving a college party or a night at a dance club, the subs remove the low end abuse that the regular speakers would normally have to shoulder.

 

3) I'm also a fan of multiple smaller subs rather than one large sub.  This, when done right, increases the sweet spot.  For example, when I ran one sub on the front wall, the bass was nicely increased at the small listening area, but obnoxiously loud when you neared a wall.  With the addition of another sub on the side wall, it evened it out a bit, but I still have areas of peaks and voids.  Eventually, when I retire and build a home, I will design a home theater/listening room around the swarm concept.... 4 subwoofers dispersed around the room. (This is not really a viable option for most people trying to fit it in their regular homes.)

 

4) Finally, refrain from going off the deep end.  What I mean by this is don't be the guy that has stacks of 18" subwoofers everywhere!  Not needed unless your listening area is the size of a football stadium!  I just roll my eyes every time I see a picture of some dude with multiple huge subs in a room no bigger than a bedroom!  At that point it's just a pissing contest.

 

And I agree 100% with Wuzzzer... There's not a klipsch sub I've owned that didn't have amplifier issues.  Klipsch makes decent speakers, but their subs are absolutely horrible because of their amplifiers they chose to use. (With one exception... my brothers RWS-15 is still going strong after 2 decades of almost daily use!)

On 2/23/2022 at 7:56 PM, wuzzzer said:

I'd suggest looking at what subs are available from SVS, RSL, Hsu or PS Audio.