Sub(s) with LaScalas

[mingham]

Still getting used to my new (to me) 1988 LaScalas.  I have a nice B&W ASW10CM powered sub.  I have it in the setup to get an idea of what a sub can do with the LaScalas.  If I notice a significant difference (I already do), I may eventually switch it out for two subs in stereo.  Before I get there I want to make sure I have this sub set up as best I can.

 

The B&W is a well-reviewed/regarded 500W 10" sealed sub.   I have the low pass filter set at 50hz and the volume at ~50%.  I know that for HT, placement of a sub is not very important.  I currently have a 2.1 setup.  I use it exclusively for music listening.  I am thinking I want 2 subs in stereo to fill out the lower end where the LaScalas just don't go.  I do know that bass is not as directional as higher frequencies, but I have also heard/read over the years that lower frequencies in stereo recordings are not different on each channel (or not significantly so).  Has this been the experience of those of you who have tried 2 subs in stereo?  If the stereo signal is not different beyond a certain level, I may not bother with 2 subs.  If this is the case, around what level does the stereo signal become mono (or maybe not mono, but the same or almost the same)?  If using 1 or 2 subs for this kind of setup, it would seem that placement of the sub(s) is more crucial than when using for HT, especially in stereo. Is this correct?  Is placement at all significant in 2.1? 

 

Other relevant facts: 

  -  I am not a bass-heavy listener, I like to stay close to the way recordings were recorded. 

  -  I have tested my hearing recently and I can hear down to 20hz. 

  -  I also live in a townhouse and I don't want to be a bad neighbor.  Luckily, the building is very well built and we never hear our neighbors and they say the same.

  -  I am considering the recommended horn-loaded subs, but size is a concern.

 

Because of these considerations, I don't want "killer bass" ---  I just want to be able to hear what the artists and producers wanted me to hear.  As the LaScala doesn't get low enough to render low bass info, I want to fill in the gap, I just don't want to over-emphasize it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wuzzzer]

Something like a Table Tuba would work great.

[Shakeydeal]

I have a pair of 15” HSU subs placed in the corners behind LS II. Sounds great 

[jimjimbo]

If you are not a bass heavy listener, then you don’t need subs with La Scala‘s. I have had many pairs of La Scala‘s over the years, and still do, and I have never used subs. I don’t miss the boom and the mud…

[mingham]

Thanks all.  
 

The Table Tuna is way too big, the wife would not be happy.  
 

Jim, I do want to go a little deeper than the LaScalas go, but I am with you on avoiding the boominess.  
 

I am playing with placement of the B&W.  Surprisingly, the best sound I have had yet is with the sub on top of the left LaScala.  It is in more of a corner there and obviously decoupled from the floor.  It is less boomy than when on the floor.  

[mingham]

[OO1]

1 more sub would be just perfect 

[Schu]

If you can afford it, get the pair. The reason being is that you can tie each subwoofer to each of the two L/R mains so they make up a full range stack. I would also blend the subwoofer by controlling output and cross them low... 40Hz or less, to help protect that beautiful La Scala low frequency texture. Nothing is worse than a bloated LF sound signature.

 

Normally,  HT guys use multiple subwoofers to balance out the room and fill in nulls, or to generate 3db-6db increase in output.

 

But as others have said... it's  not completely necessary to run a sub with the La Scala.

[jason str]

If you want to do it right don't make frequencies below 100 Hz the weak link of the sweet horn loaded sound.

[mingham]

I don’t want to make a weak link.  I want bass output between maybe 30-50hz. I want it to be balanced with the lascalas output above that range. 
 

Size is a concern.  Money really isn’t except I don’t want to pay for something that isn’t going to get me a return.  I am really asking if a second sub is going to get me that return.  

[Schu]

Size... physical size of the enclosure or the driver size?

I think you could get away with 12" drivers.

[mingham]

Schu - physical size.  I just can’t do a giant sub (or two of them).  Thought about the small Table Tubas as a base for the LaScallas, but I think it raises them 16” or so. That’s too much. 

[Schu]

Any separation from the boundary layer is to much... 2-4" is engineered into the design.

[mingham]

Schu - I am sorry - I have no idea what that means.  Would you mind explaining?

[Schu]

You should not decouple your la scalas from the floor as it acts as a boundary layer and the speaker reaps gains from being coupled to it.

There wwas also a ported mod a while ago that seemed to work well with the la scala for some. It was a chamber below the bass bin and was double ported to the room and the bottom woofer door was left open to port to the chamber.

I would never do it, but some here seemed to like it.

[billybob]

Play bass and never considered having a sub when had my LaScala.

Lol, yes that sub on top, may 

just be the ticket... cool.

 

[DirtyErnie]

Also play bass.  Fun thing about that instrument is that we almost never hear that 40Hz fundamental, most cabinets start rolling off below 80-100Hz, and uprights  roll off far above that.  Probably what gives the LaScala that 'texture', it really brings out the harmonics that are the bass sound.

[Schu]

2 hours ago, DirtyErnie said:

Also play bass.  Fun thing about that instrument is that we almost never hear that 40Hz fundamental... Probably what gives the LaScala that 'texture', it really brings out the harmonics that are the bass sound.

I could not agree with this ^ more... besides the Time alignment and bifurcation issues, this is the major reason why I love the La Scala more than the Klipschorn... and it is also why I am still struggling somewhat with the Jubilee.

[Shakeydeal]

18 hours ago, mingham said:

 

I think you'll find if you leave that sub there long enough, you'll have rubber marks in the finish that will be hard to remove. That said, it's really not a good place to put a sub anyway. And I'd be surprised if something that small is doing anything meaningful with the output of the Lascalas being what it is.

[DirtyErnie]

The room appears to be small enough that 1w through a LaScala would drive a sane person out of it.  It doesn't take much speaker to make decent bass at normal listening volumes in that sort of environment.  
Although a coaster or something between the speakers and subs sounds like a good idea.