LaScalas insdustrial for a local Disco venue?

[noviygera]

Hey guys, wanted to ask for advice pertaining to a set of "split" LSI that I just got, having a PAIR of bass bins per side, single tops.

 

A local venue with a 23'x35' dance floor, needs a new sound system. The plan is to have a vintage feel Klipsch system consisting of two main stacks and small fills for the back of dance area.  So basically, I want to get some thoughts on the suitability of LSI's with "dual" bass bins side-by-side (possibly vertical) and SINGLE tops, which will be augmented and sit on top of good subs. Probably a pair or quad of JBL 4642a (double 18" cinema subs).

 

There is a path I have seen here, replacing the LSI tops with K402 horn. Is this a good idea for a disco club application or should I just stick to the standard LSI tops? Here, high output and reliability is very important. But we wanna have the vibe of a real Klipsch system   It will make it extra special. Will have to use DSP for crossover, limiting, and possibly some EQ.

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimjimbo]

@Chief bonehead

[OO1]

 

  @nickyboy6100  has  2 .klipsch KPT -942/4 for sale -( 4 x 15 inch woofers + 1 K-402 per speaker )

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

5 hours ago, noviygera said:

Hey guys, wanted to ask for advice pertaining to a set of "split" LSI that I just got, having a PAIR of bass bins per side, single tops.

 

A local venue with a 23'x35' dance floor, needs a new sound system. The plan is to have a vintage feel Klipsch system consisting of two main stacks and small fills for the back of dance area.  So basically, I want to get some thoughts on the suitability of LSI's with "dual" bass bins side-by-side (possibly vertical) and SINGLE tops, which will be augmented and sit on top of good subs. Probably a pair or quad of JBL 4642a (double 18" cinema subs).

 

There is a path I have seen here, replacing the LSI tops with K402 horn. Is this a good idea for a disco club application or should I just stick to the standard LSI tops? Here, high output and reliability is very important. But we wanna have the vibe of a real Klipsch system   It will make it extra special. Will have to use DSP for crossover, limiting, and possibly some EQ.

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used non-commercial (regular?) LaScalas with K-33's for years without subs. You don't need double "bass" bins" which are only HORN Loaded for Midbass fequencies.

This was for my brother's DJ system, which I built for them. This was in the vinyl days without as much expected BASS that has been the norm since CD's took over from vinyl (which is what they had in those days, 45's and Albums). Use a the biggest subs you can afford (I recommend horn based or Double 18" Bass Reflex). You should be able to get people dancing with that. Trust me, you don't need double LaScala bins, they re NOT designed for the deep bass of today from 30-100 Hz. in Music.

 

[Chief bonehead]

Using two la scala bass bin does extend the low end because the mouths couple. And if you want to extend the horn loaded low end……kpt-1802. 

[ClaudeJ1]

11 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

Using two la scala bass bin does extend the low end because the mouths couple. And if you want to extend the horn loaded low end……kpt-1802. 

But of course. not as well as double 18's which is a better use of space and weight to get down to 30 Hz. Like the ones you designed the Kevin and JWC were so fond of (Funk Brothers?). If the KPT-1802 were to be used, they would only need ONE!

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, RandyH said:

Reach out to  @nickyboy6100  he has  2 .klipsch KPT -942/4 for sale -( 4 x 15 inch woofers + 1 K-402 per speaker ) .

That thing is simply Pure Temptation of earthly materials!

[OO1]

3k$ is a bargain for these KPT 942/4

[ClaudeJ1]

9 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

But of course. not as well as double 18's which is a better use of space and weight to get down to 30 Hz. Like the ones you designed the Kevin and JWC were so fond of (Funk Brothers?). If the KPT-1802 were to be used, they would only need ONE!

What I originally had in mind were a pair of KPT-684's underneath each LaScala. The mid and tweeter of the LS should be about 6 ft. in the air for DJ work, so the sound fires over everyone's heads on the dance floor.

[noviygera]

Aside from the LSI bass bin, I'd like to ask about the high section. The LSI high section (mid+tweeter) VS the K402 (K-691). My question is, in a disco club PA environment, which is the more rugged, more listenable without listener fatigue, at high output. This is not quite an audiophile standard, more like "fun sound", party sound, DJs playing disco, techno, electronic music, etc. It's a club! that is the environment in which I would ask for thoughts on which top would be more appropriate.

[Islander]

Chief Bonehead knows far more than anyone else on this forum about La Scalas and how they’re suited to which application, so his advice has top rank.

 

Going to the K402 horn calls for new drivers, K-69-A, or the current compression driver (which is better; I have a pair in my 402s), the K-691.  The 402s aren’t cheap, and It also calls for another stereo amplifier, since there aren’t any readily available passive crossovers for that combo.  You’d also need to get a DSP unit, like a Xilica or an Electro-Voice unit.  It would be quite a bit more simple and much less expensive to follow Chief Bonehead’s recommendations.

 

Going to a bi-amped “JubScala” setup may be nice for a purist home audio system, but the cost would outweigh the benefits for a disco situation.  The dual bass La Scala plus subwoofers should be all you or the club need, and you already have most of it.

 

As for the top end, if the tweeters happen to blow, just replace them with Crites’s CT120 or CT125 tweeters, which sound better and can handle more power.

[OO1]

 1 pair of LSI  in a disco club  25x35   dancing floor  .forget it ......the crowd's  stomping bodies/feet on the floor will drown the speakers  ,this is not a movie theatre with silent folks , this is a  club .

 

For a 25x35 dancing floor playing 120 dB minimum  for  hours  , you would need .......1 pair of LSI  on top of each  other  x 4 corners..... plus subs / in order to avoid blowing drivers   . 

 

My recommendation  ..... 2 stacks of  MCM 1900  or 1   pair of TSCM ( HF - 4x K55V /2 tweeters k77 per cabinet )   with  2  klipsch 1802  subs  .

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

5 hours ago, Islander said:

Chief Bonehead knows far more than anyone else on this forum about La Scalas and how they’re suited to which application, so his advice has top rank.

 

Of course. Who would disagree with this comment?

 

I was just sharing my real world experiences from the Vinyl Days. For modern recordings and Digital Source Playback, if he already has Double LaScala bins, they still won't go as low as a good sub to "shake their moneymaker" even if the crowd is sitting! LOL.

[ClaudeJ1]

49 minutes ago, RandyH said:

1 pair of LSI  in a disco club  25x35   dancing floor  .forget it ......the crowd's  stomping bodies/feet on the floor will drown the speakers  ,this is not a movie theatre with silent folks , this is a  club .

 

For a 25x35 dancing floor playing 120 dB minimum  for  hours  , you would need .......1 pair of LSI  on top of each  other  x 4 corners..... plus subs / in order to avoid blowing drivers   . 

 

My recommendation  ..... 2 stacks of  MCM 1900  or 1   pair of TSCM ( HF - 4x K55V /2 tweeters k77 per cabinet )   with  2  klipsch 1802  subs  .

I never said one pair of LaScalas in a club would be good enough. But back in the vinyl days of the 70's....................it was. Most of the time, single LS bins were used at Weddings.

 

I clearly said they would REQUIRE subs 40 years later (today) with modern Electronic Dance music in a dance club.

 

Besides, your recommendation includes products no longer manufactured.

[noviygera]

What's going in already is a PAIR of double 18" subs + pair of LSI midbass horns PER CHANNEL. Please see OP. The question is this, once again: What's the best top for this application:

single LSI high section (mid+tweeter) VS the K402 (K-691).

 

Will be using DSP as all commercial install do. Limiters and compressors are needed to keep DJs from blowing up system.

 

I will be clear that there are other priorities, in addition to sound quality. Listenability at high SPL. 

Fun factor over accuracy.

 

thank you!

Edited March 31, 2022 by noviygera

[Khornukopia]

40 minutes ago, noviygera said:

What's going in already is a PAIR of double 18" subs + pair of LSI midbass horns PER CHANNEL. Please see OP. The question is this, once again: What's the best top for this application:

single LSI high section (mid+tweeter) VS the K402 (K-691).

 

The best for your application is the K-402. I am using some K-402s in a 24'x30' space. 

[noviygera]

This is a bit off topic but maybe a third possibility for the mids / tops:

 

I am talking about some multicell horns, in case anyone has used one. I have some Dukane 5A320 multicell, 2x4 horns with the JBL 2485 drivers. These look very cool and seems to be made very well. I believe work from 300hz to 5Khz. Can these be used in a 23'x35' room or do these need more "space to breathe"? 

I have not set these up because my room is even smaller, really no way of testing it yet, properly. Any thoughts on these beasts? 

[OO1]

 k-402  / k-1133

[OO1]

 

 

20 hours ago, noviygera said:

 

 K402 (K-691).

 

 

[jimjimbo]

Once again, @Chief bonehead