Warehouse/Shop Sound Reinforcement

[DWGooch]

Hi guys!

 

I’m seeking some guidance. Our fabrication shop is moving into a new building and needs sound. We build all sorts of things and use a wide variety of tools like a CNC router, sliding table saw, radial arm saw, abrasive metal cut-off saw, etc. (to name some loud ones). We are all big music lovers and typically listen at levels that are audible over tools throughout the day as we work. Our new shop is significantly larger than what we’re currently in, and we’re looking to upgrade the system as we grow. 
 

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Room Specs:

 

2 adjacent spaces, roughly the same size separated by a long wall at 80’ x 37’ [2960sqft] each. Both of these are 17’ from floor to bottom of uninsulated rafters.
 

Another room, which is off of one of the aforementioned rooms is light filled with 34’ ceilings and 53’ x 38’ [2014sqft] - basically two stories of windows in the walls. Beautiful, but a nightmare for sound from what I’ve learned, since it’s all basically brick and glass. 

 

Both are generally uninterrupted with the exception of the intermittent beams running vertically. 

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I think ideally we’re looking for a multi-zone system to control each space independently (same input signal) with a single control center if possible. This will be for music, no broadcast announcements or anything. We could use separate systems for each if it makes more sense.
 

In at least one room I’d like to apply my LSI separates, with the plan to build a pair of Fitzmaurice THTs for underneath. We’ll need some more speakers throughout the rest of the space of course, so I’m looking for suggestions for both speaker placement/coverage and how to properly setup and power something like this. I’m a 2ch disciple mostly, so I suppose this might be my first foray into something akin to a pro audio application. I understand the basics and have some pieces that will help get us there (a few BGWs at the ready…)

 

We’re a pretty DIY bunch as you might imagine, we’ll cobble this together however we can, but I thought the mighty Klipsch community may have some sound advice for us.

 

Let me know whatcha think!

 

P.S. - the Heresies get the upstairs kitchen/lounge on a dedicated system. 😎

[billybob]

Cool... sounds like some LSI or 

Pro speakers may work. No Rave, dancing there after hours, am guessing.

 

@DWGooch

 

 

[Dave1291]

Hope you've earmarked the cash for this!  lol  Stacks of bass bins and LS everywhere in a fabrication shop?  I'm old and pretty worthless but could use a part time job if you're wanting someone who can stir the pot well. 

[LTusler]

Sounds like you will need a commercial type sound system.  Perhaps one or more of these could help with level control, I would assume all machines aren't running all at the same time.

 

https://www.bogen.com/product/specialty-electronics/ambient-noise-sensor-ans501

 

 

[DWGooch]

4 hours ago, billybob said:

Cool... sounds like some LSI or 

Pro speakers may work. No Rave, dancing there after hours, am guessing.

 

@DWGooch

 

 

We work hard and play hard so afterhours shindigs occur occasionally, without a doubt. Hence the LSI and bass bins… I’m thinking that with some other decent speakers in the corners we’re set, at least for that room. 

 

3 hours ago, Dave1291 said:

Hope you've earmarked the cash for this!  lol  Stacks of bass bins and LS everywhere in a fabrication shop?  I'm old and pretty worthless but could use a part time job if you're wanting someone who can stir the pot well. 

 

Not a lot of cash to throw at it but we’re handy, and willing to dig around local classifieds and whatnot until deals pop up. 

1 hour ago, LTusler said:

Sounds like you will need a commercial type sound system.  Perhaps one or more of these could help with level control, I would assume all machines aren't running all at the same time.

 

https://www.bogen.com/product/specialty-electronics/ambient-noise-sensor-ans501

 

 

 

Great idea here, I like the idea of that sensor helping out while we’re running the louder tools. 
 

 

Could a decent AVR as a pre out to multiple amps work for the zone idea maybe? Curious about ohm loads and distance… just some chunky wire if it’s kept to 4 speakers per amp? 

[Peter P.]

The space is too large for just a pair of speakers. It will be too loud near the speakers and maybe too soft farther away.

 

Also your description of the interior leads me to believe there will be a lot of slap echo.

 

Speakers will need to be close to the operators to be heard over machine noise.

 

You need a truly distributed sound system, and wall and ceiling treatment to damp any reflected sound.

 

I'd opt for pendant speakers hanging from the ceilings. If you were to use wall mounted speakers, they can't be facing each other on

opposing walls otherwise there would be a lot of cancellation. They would have to be staggered.

 

I think you need a 25/70V PA system with multiple speakers.

 

 

[DWGooch]

Thanks for the response Pete. We always planned to have more than a pair of speakers in each “zone”, I was just wondering what kinds of configurations might work in that shape/size space. 
 

Room treatment is something I’m pushing for, and inevitably it’ll be me up on an extension ladder doing it cause I’m spearheading this whole deal. Thinking of going with hanging vertical baffles placed intermittently throughout. Lightweight panel upholstered with furniture blanket or rebond foam was my thought for a scrappy version of that. 
 

From my research, I agree that a full in 70v commercial PA system with pendants and a multi-zone amp is probably best for this application, but I think we’re seeking a more frugal and creative solution…

 

After finding this on another forum I wanted to throw this into the mix:

 

“ 
 Speakers: round up four Klipsch Heresy speakers. Efficient and powerful, and they sound acceptable. You can mount them one of two ways for best performance:

 

1) If your ceilings are high enough (12 ft or more), you can mount them in a cluster in the center of the building in a fan pattern. In fact, if you do a cluster, you can get by with just three.
 

2) One speaker in each corner pointing toward the center of the room. Great bass response this way, but not as good coverage.

“

Approach #2 was of the default idea but with feedback I’m leaning towards approach #1 with a Heresy array. I think I could probably track down some in our budget. (A set of 3 just sold in VA for $750 )

 

Alex Rosner mentioned this approach with one or two bass horns on the floor as a possible solution to a large rectangle room scenario, with the caveat that the mids could potentially be drowned out if the LF isn’t properly reigned-in and placement considered. 
 

Any thoughts? 

Edited April 4, 2022 by DWGooch

[billybob]

Think the Heresy a good idea.

Since how it is going to be used, would consider Kpt-100,

Kpt-200. Will try to find a link or 2. Should be able to find some used ones inexpensive.

Either can get loud and clear.

Plus their mount bracket and 

shape should enable coverage.

8 ohm...☕

[rockhound]

This sounds like an excellent application for the 396/684 combo I have listed in the garage sale section

[billybob]

+1 on the above post.

 

https://www.klipsch.com/products/kpt-100

 

[billybob]

Kpt-200...

 

https://www.klipsch.com/products/kpt-200

[OO1]

4 hours ago, DWGooch said:

I’m leaning towards approach #1 with a Heresy array.

 

the Heresy is definitely your best Option , price wise and sound wise

[billybob]

Not what was looking for but yes, loud and clear. They come with metal grille covers.