ka7niq Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I sold my Klipschorns, but I still have very large horn speakers in the corners "Klipschorn Style". Of course, the speakers fire across the room. I know with a conventional pair of speakers NOT in the room corners, we try to hang the acoustic panels at the first reflection points. But, with speakers firing from the corners, where shall I hang the panels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Same positions, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 @ka7niq See Chris A's articles on this, here on the community forum, specifically addressing absorption panels in rooms with corner horns. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/131163-corner-horn-imaging-faq/ Here is an excerpt from Chris's posts; see my final 2 cents at the bottom of the page. "These early reflections should be controlled (i.e., a "Zero Reflection Zone" that one acoustic panel manufacturer uses) in order to achieve much greater imaging performance with speakers in corners of rooms (especially corner horns). What is the easiest way to control these reflections? Have a smooth boundary between the speakers (i.e., nothing between the speakers) and smooth front and side walls. If this is not possible for your room and setup, the next easiest fix is to employ absorption panels. Many companies make "fuzz" panels and tiles that can easily be placed along side walls and front walls of the your listening room. How much? It turns out (from the Haas Effect) that controlling the early reflections should be done for about 10-20 milliseconds of delayed reflections from side and front walls. This translates into about 11 to 22 feet (3.4-6.8 meters) of total path length at room temperature. One way to determine how much absorption you need about the midrange horn mouth area on the front and side walls is to draw a plan view of your room (i.e., looking down on the floor plan), and draw circles from your listening position in increments of 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 feet (4.9, 5.5, 6.1 meters). Then draw circles of 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. feet (0.6, 1.2, 1.8, etc. meters) from your midrange horn mouth locations in-room. Where the circles intersect along the walls with total path length of less than 11-22 feet (3.4-6.8 meters), mark those areas with a highlighter, then go open a bottle of wine with your spouse. Wait until the wine takes effect, then start the negotiations on how much absorbent tiles/panels are acceptable (...hopefully, the answer isn't "zero"...). I use about 2 feet (0.6 meters) of absorption at the side-wall exit area of my corner-horn midrange horns: YMMV. Depending on your room geometry and listening position in relation to the corner horn placement (i.e., the included angle of the speakers relative to the listener--typically 90+ degrees included angle), the width of the midrange horn acoustic coverage laterally (~60-100 degrees included angle), and assuming that your corner horn midrange horn controls its polar response down to its lower crossover frequency*, the area that you should cover with absorption panels could be on the order of 2-10 feet along the front and side walls. I find that 2 feet of absorption along side walls works very well for Klipsch K-402 horns (i.e. Jubilee), and ~7 feet across the front wall, measured from the exit of each midrange horn's mouth. Another approach is to place diffuser panels along the same areas, but note that the use of diffusers in the "Hass effect areas" will likely not achieve the same level of corner-horn imaging as the use of absorbers. More on the reasons why later. If your listening position is more than 11 to 22 feet (3.4-6.8 meters) away, you probably have little work to do. If you are like me, and sit within 10 feet (3 meters) of your corner horns, you will find that the effect of using absorbent panels along the walls is spectacular in increasing your stereo imaging performance." I (Gary) like to scatter a few diffusers on more distant walls, but in the path of the speakers. Plain or fancy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted April 5, 2022 Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 7 hours ago, garyrc said: LOL, after I posted this, I saw that article, and have read it several times now. That article calls for sound absorbers on the sides of the corner mounted speakers, instead of the first reflection points. His comments in the article about ceiling reflections were read by me with great interest. My Ceiling where the speakers are is a low suspended ceiling, only 6.5 inches high! My Room is a converted carport, so it is lower then the rest of the house. So, they had to slope the ceiling, so it would attach to the rest of the house. My Horn sits on top of it's woofer enclosure. I jacked the back of it up a little, to point the horn more at me, and away from the ceiling. I need to jack it up more, but I could hear the difference just jacking it up a little made! 7 hours ago, garyrc said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted April 5, 2022 Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 This is the amp I am using, and it is absolutely amazing. It beats my 2 tube amplifiers, and 8 of my Solid State ones too, seriously! It is dead nuts quiet, important to me since my speakers are very efficient. These things are dirt cheap too, well under 100 dollars! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/aiyima-a07-tpa3255-review-amplifier.18984/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 17 hours ago, ka7niq said: LOL, after I posted this, I saw that article, and have read it several times now. That article calls for sound absorbers on the sides of the corner mounted speakers, instead of the first reflection points. His comments in the article about ceiling reflections were read by me with great interest. My Ceiling where the speakers are is a low suspended ceiling, only 6.5 inches high! My Room is a converted carport, so it is lower then the rest of the house. So, they had to slope the ceiling, so it would attach to the rest of the house. My Horn sits on top of it's woofer enclosure. I jacked the back of it up a little, to point the horn more at me, and away from the ceiling. I need to jack it up more, but I could hear the difference just jacking it up a little made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted April 6, 2022 Author Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 4/5/2022 at 1:38 AM, garyrc said: @ka7niq Another approach is to place diffuser panels along the same areas, but note that the use of diffusers in the "Hass effect areas" will likely not achieve the same level of corner-horn imaging as the use of absorbers. More on the reasons why later. If your listening position is more than 11 to 22 feet (3.4-6.8 meters) away, you probably have little work to do. If you are like me, and sit within 10 feet (3 meters) of your corner horns, you will find that the effect of using absorbent panels along the walls is spectacular in increasing your stereo imaging performance." I (Gary) like to scatter a few diffusers on more distant walls, but in the path of the speakers. Plain or fancy I have a couple Diffusors, they are a curved 1/2 round cylinder, I guess I can try them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 The curved 1/2 round cylinders may be Dr. Bonner's solution which were advocated by PWK. Artto had or has a room full of them in Artto's Klipschorn room, on the forum. He has different speakers now. He and Chris A are two of the most knowledgeable people on the forum (IMO). I used absorption near the speakers, and diffusers farther away from both the listeners and the speakers. After a little careful EQ, the room sounds great! To see Artto's room, try: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/19799-arttos-klipschorn-room/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 3 hours ago, garyrc said: The curved 1/2 round cylinders may be Dr. Bonner's solution which were advocated by PWK. Artto had or has a room full of them in Artto's Klipschorn room, on the forum. He has different speakers now. He and Chris A are two of the most knowledgeable people on the forum (IMO). I used absorption near the speakers, and diffusers farther away from both the listeners and the speakers. After a little careful EQ, the room sounds great! To see Artto's room, try: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/19799-arttos-klipschorn-room/ Looks Great! Back in the early 80's, I lived out in Seattle. My best friend Mark was a part owned in Definitive Audio. They were Levinson dealers. Mark Levinson came to town, and we all went to eat at the Space Needle. I asked Mark Levinson what was the ultimate speaker. To my very great surprise, he said "Klipschorns"! This shocked me, and he added that you need to turn the tweeters vertical, and get them out of the cabinets, and you needed to give them some EQ with his Cello Audio Pallett Equalizer. I very much believe in Equalization, if it is done correctly. The 2 curved diffusors I have came as part of a deal, and I have not really gotten around to using them, but I intend to, eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolox Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/5/2022 at 3:54 AM, ka7niq said: I sold my Klipschorns, but I still have very large horn speakers in the corners "Klipschorn Style". Of course, the speakers fire across the room. I know with a conventional pair of speakers NOT in the room corners, we try to hang the acoustic panels at the first reflection points. But, with speakers firing from the corners, where shall I hang the panels ? for a wide, spacious sound, I would experiment with diffuser panels on the opposite wall, where the sound coming straight from the horns hits the wall. That would be the first reflection point when using horns in a corner set-up. I've recently purchased diffusers from t.akustik and I must say I find the effect exhilarating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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