KLF-20 sibilance and sharpness - would a tweeter diaphragm upgrade maybe help?

[adam2434]

After working on and finally listening to some newly-acquired KLF-20’s, I have found that they have some pronounced and annoying sibilance (that sharp hissy sound with certain consonants) and sharpness/edginess on certain instruments.

 

Sibilance can be in the 5-10 kHz range.

 

I don’t have this complaint on my RF-7 III’s and Forte I’s.

 

Anyone else notice this with KLF-20’s?

 

Would the Crites Ti tweeter diaphragms tame this sibilance and sharpness I’m hearing?

[Dave A]

Have you considered the possibility of lousy recordings? Far more of them out there then you might think. Audacity might help you and finding a better quality file of the same music might prove the bad file issue and not a tweeter problem.

[MMurg]

I have KLF-20 and 30.  I did put Crites titanium tweeters in mine but that was just to get a little better top end extension.  Never noticed the issues that you describe with either the stock or Crites tweeters.

[mustang_flht]

Hi,

 

you can also put MAHL tweeters, 

 

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

18 hours ago, adam2434 said:

Anyone else notice this with KLF-20’s?

If we all step back and think about all of the "double standards" that exist in our society for people AND products. It's a truly ridiculous situation. For Automobiles, as an example, they require Constant Maintenance. No one ever expects more than a 10 year useful life. After that much time, cars need more than a new paint job.

 

Yet everyone expects Loudspeakers to last forever without ever drifting from factory specifications or having component level failure.

 

Just keep in mind that TWEETERS are the most fragile components and any kind of abuse (accidental or otherwise) that happens to them will usually result in failure (or sonic deviations) of said tweeters. Just sayin'.

 

[OO1]

19 hours ago, adam2434 said:

After working on and finally listening to some newly-acquired KLF-20’s, I have found that they have some pronounced and annoying sibilance (that sharp hissy sound with certain consonants) and sharpness/edginess on certain instruments.

Question ......try to take a picture of  The tweeter diaphragms  in the klf-20  to see if these are the stock diaphragms or aftermarkets  ,  if they are stock units ,try  lowering the treble tone control .

 

if these   have the Polymer diaphragms , make sure , there is Ferro-Fluid in the VC  ,  if these are the Phenolic , these dont use FF .

[adam2434]

22 hours ago, Dave A said:

Have you considered the possibility of lousy recordings? Far more of them out there then you might think. Audacity might help you and finding a better quality file of the same music might prove the bad file issue and not a tweeter problem.

 

It’s not a file quality issue.  It’s a difference in the way the KLF-20 sound (more sibilant and more edgy) with the same content vs. other speakers I currently own, including other Klipsch (RF-7 III and Forte I).

 

A couple examples: 

1. On the Eagles “Hell Freezes Over” DVD’s PCM track (a very good recording, IMO, and one that I’ve listened to 100’s of times, and use to evaluate systems), I notice more sibilance and pronounced “s”, “t”, and “ch” sounds.  Also, some of the electric guitar parts have a more shrill/edgy sound. 
2. Watching TV programs, dialog also has more sibilance and pronounced “s”, “t”, and “ch” sounds.

This is not a big deal, but if there was a quick and inexpensive way to improve it (like new tweeter diaphragms), I’d probably go for it.  I plan to give these KLF-20’s to my son and I expect that he would be happy with them regardless.

[Klipschtastic]

I have Crites tweeters in mine. No such issues. 

[adam2434]

3 hours ago, RandyH said:

Question ......try to take a picture of  The tweeter diaphragms  in the klf-20  to see if these are the stock diaphragms or aftermarkets  ,  if they are stock units ,try  lowering the treble tone control .

 

if these   have the Polymer diaphragms , make sure , there is Ferro-Fluid in the VC  ,  if these are the Phenolic , these dont use FF .

 

Hey, can you tell anything from these pics? 

 

I'm thinking they are probably the stock polymer diaphragms...I think I see a black shiny dome through the phase plug, but not 100%.

[OO1]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:11 PM, adam2434 said:

 

Hey, can you tell anything from these pics? 

 

I'm thinking they are probably the stock polymer diaphragms...I think I see a black shiny dome through the phase plug, but not 100%.

 

yeah , it could be the klipsch poly with FerroFluid in the VC , these tweeter diaphragms are not designed to run dry  , and FF does dry over the years   , either way , these  tweeters need cleaning  , I see  dust , slowly , carefully , blow some air at a distance .  try to stay away from the dome of the tweeter

[adam2434]

7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If we all step back and think about all of the "double standards" that exist in our society for people AND products. It's a truly ridiculous situation. For Automobiles, as an example, they require Constant Maintenance. No one ever expects more than a 10 year useful life. After that much time, cars need more than a new paint job.

 

Yet everyone expects Loudspeakers to last forever without ever drifting from factory specifications or having component level failure.

 

Just keep in mind that TWEETERS are the most fragile components and any kind of abuse (accidental or otherwise) that happens to them will usually result in failure (or sonic deviations) of said tweeters. Just sayin'.

 

 

Does this mean you think what I'm hearing is due to faulty tweeters?

 

As I said originally, I'm totally open to new tweeter diaphragms.

 

I just got these KLF-20s a couple weeks ago, and I have no idea if they were abused by the previous owner.  I can say that all the drivers "work" and that the cabinets are in good shape.

[Deang]

I have personally never cared for the sound of any of the KLF series loudspeakers - I think the highs are obnoxious. 

 

Anyway, the ferrofluid dries up over time and inhibits movement of the VC.

 

https://speakerrepairshop.nl/en/questions/ferrofluid/c-34

[Fish]

I have 2 sets of 20s. Titanium in one and soft in the other, they sound a little different, but both pretty good with no issues in their space.

[OO1]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:58 PM, adam2434 said:

 I'm totally open to new tweeter diaphragms.

great, order new TI diaphragms from Klipsch Parts , never hurts to have Brand new spares  -

▶️  https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us   

 

[adam2434]

3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So, if you are "totally" open to new tweeter diaphragms, why haven't you ordered them yet?

Huh?

 

In the first post, I asked if anyone else noticed sibilance and sharpness on their KLF-20s and whether new diaphragms (like the Crites Ti) would tame this.

 

There have not been any "yes" and "yes" replies in this thread.

 

If someone replied saying they also found them sibilant and sharp and that new diaphragms improved this, I would be all over it and would be asking what type of diaphragm they installed.

[Chief bonehead]

1 hour ago, adam2434 said:

Huh?

 

In the first post, I asked if anyone else noticed sibilance and sharpness on their KLF-20s and whether new diaphragms (like the Crites Ti) would tame this.

 

There have not been any "yes" and "yes" replies in this thread.

 

If someone replied saying they also found them sibilant and sharp and that new diaphragms improved this, I would be all over it and would be asking what type of diaphragm they installed.

Correct. You have haven’t said either way. But some of the boneheads here just seem to be a little cranky and I can certainly take care of that. You might want to clean the diaphragms. Anything between the diaphragm and phase plug may buzz. 
 

and if you do want to replace the diaphragms, klipsch does offer titanium diaphragms as replacements. 

[adam2434]

24 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

Correct. You have haven’t said either way. But some of the boneheads here just seem to be a little cranky and I can certainly take care of that. You might want to clean the diaphragms. Anything between the diaphragm and phase plug may buzz. 
 

and if you do want to replace the diaphragms, klipsch does offer titanium diaphragms as replacements. 

 

Do you think Klipsch titanium diaphragms for the K-79-K in the KLF-20 would tame some of the sibilance a sharpness I'm hearing at times with the stock diaphragms, which I believe are poly?

 

If so, while I'm at it, I could clean the VC gap and add new ferrofluid, if that's advisable. 

 

 

[billybob]

Your photo of the inside of tweeter shows particulate matter covering on and under the phase plug.

When you feel comfortable with it, try cleaning both.

Some would likely come out with careful vacuum. Would try that first.

[Fish]

I have to ask WHERE IS Moray ?  He has never missed a chance to say HOW terrible that factory diaphragm is. He hates it with a passion.  I'd say you can't judge it with the original. What about crossover parts ?  Mine sound pretty good, best when hooked to my 9090 or sx980, these speakers pound with old radios with power. With new stuff, even Anthem, Rotel etc...not the same presentation.

[adam2434]

17 hours ago, billybob said:

Your photo of the inside of tweeter shows particulate matter covering on and under the phase plug.

When you feel comfortable with it, try cleaning both.

Some would likely come out with careful vacuum. Would try that first.

OK, that's easy enough to try with a vacuum.  Like 24 years of the previous owner's dust in the phase plug.

 

Can those particles cause the tweeter to sound more sibilant and edgy, you think?