Why buy a Mc 275 when you can have one of these!

[Islander]

2 hours ago, PatP said:

…..thats odd, I would call it thievery and nothing to be proud of. 
(wow)

Carry on with Audio…😁

 

I went CD shopping with a Chinese friend in Toronto downtown Chinatown some years ago.  The “honest/original” CDs were in one bin, while the copies were in the bin beside them, at half price.  To my friend, and to the other shoppers there, paying half price was just an example of being a smart shopper.  The concept of piracy seemed to be some Western idea, an idea that seemed so theoretical that it had no relevance to the average Chinese shopper.  They wondered why I’d pay double for the same music, which just came in a fancier case, with better photos.  That didn’t seem like good value to them.

[Khornukopia]

On 4/10/2022 at 4:21 PM, henry4841 said:

No one has transformers like McIntosh does.

 

I am under the impression that the original transformer patent is long expired, so does anyone know (save me some research time) if that better design is in common use on other brands?

[henry4841]

Doubtful if many if any go to the expense of making transformers like McIntosh. 

[ckc]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:12 AM, captainbeefheart said:

Quick answer would be to do a null test vs a real MC275, but I doubt anyone is going purchase one of these just to test that.

 

As for the McIntosh output transformers they aren't impervious to cloning, the Chinese have been reverse engineering US technology much more complex than an output transformer. As long as they are willing to dissect a real one carefully and honestly they probably don't even have to do that to get a close enough approximation. It's no secret how the unity coupled circuit works, in short the loading is distributed between plate and cathode, this reduces the winding ratio (hence why the output stage has very little gain) which greatly reduces leakage inductance and shunt capacitance, using bifilar winding technique the leakage inductance between primary sections is practically eliminated. These are the key takeaway points for winding goals. So just knowing how it functions allows someone to get darn close empirically without even having a real one in hand to unwind.

 

Is this ethical or legal? Depends on if the patent is in public domain or not. Even if the patent isn't up I'm sure you can get around it by changing some non-critical values of parts here and there that doesn't effect the performance.

it seem the patent only apply to us country only not world thats why a lot clone are in china

[captainbeefheart]

2 hours ago, ckc said:

it seem the patent only apply to us country only not world thats why a lot clone are in china

 

It's a global marketplace and I would think a US patent would still hold against a Chinese product that's being sold in the US.

 

I agree they do it all the time anyway.

[Emile]

About $1800  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803523861422.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt 

 

And ... they also have a MC500  http://www.diybuy.net/thread-1864752-1-1.html 

[tigerwoodKhorns]

54 minutes ago, Emile said:

About $1800  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803523861422.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt 

 

And ... they also have a MC500  http://www.diybuy.net/thread-1864752-1-1.html 

 

 

Nice website - my anti virus said 'multiple suspicious content blocked'  - My kind of sellers!!

 

[BadChile]

Don't get me started - Another Chi-fi brand is Thieaudio, established in 2019.  The dirt hadn't even started to grow weeds on the grave of Thiel Audio at the time it started.  Good products or not, that clear rip off annoys me to no end.

[babadono]

East is east and west is west and the twain shall never meet.

[Emile]

36 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

my anti virus said 'multiple suspicious content blocked'

Hey ... what do you expect ... sure they are trying to steal more stuff  

[Dave A]

I hear Crown XLI800's are pretty good ;D

[michaelwjones]

35 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I hear Crown XLI800's are pretty good ;D

 

I've heard that as well. 😆

[KT88]

On 5/4/2022 at 5:56 PM, Khornukopia said:

 

The Unity Coupled, Balanced Differential Feed Transformer was a very clever invention way back then. Do you know if these are more commonly built and utilized in other modern amplifiers?

I wonder about that too, completely independent of the Chinese thieves of glorious ideas. I would even bet that this Chinese MC275 clone doesn't even have OTs according to the Mcintosh principle and also has a stupid generic circuit. And if it does have OTs according to the MC principle, then in the worst quality. By the way, Mcintosh itself, I read, had problems with the MC275 CE in the mid-90s because they had not wound OTs for 25 years. They had the OTs from somewhere. Today the CE with its purchased OT is considered the least attractive of all MC275 series. The MK 4 was again very good. It is not just hearsay, I have personally compared CE with MK4 20 years ago in detail and over weeks. This taken as a background, what do you expect from a Chinese firecracker when Mc himself already had a not so good device in the series.

Now my question is if serious manufacturers use the Mcintosh OT principle also today, assuming they are allowed to because the patents might have expired?

[Bubo]

Build Quality on McIntosh is second to none

So is the engineering

 

If the knock off has potted transformers, I doubt they are the same design or quality

same for the rest of the components

[KT88]

On 4/11/2022 at 5:11 AM, mike stehr said:

McIntosh MC275 MK VI Clone | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 

CohibaJoe started this thread. Apparently "Orsofon" is a good choice if you don't listen to a lot of serious music but enjoy component fetishism and soldering. Probably a real McIntosh was saved this way. It's a shame when over 10 pages of thread and all the tinkering, replaced parts etc. this guy unfortunately doesn't have the ability to look up how much the circuitry and transformers deviate from original MC275 specs.

But there is one point that I would like to highlight. That is the pricing of Mcintosh nowadays. I know the USA only from various visits but over all the decades it was possible that a music lover with an ok job could afford or save on a new or young used MC275? I bought my MK4 young used in 2005 for 2.800 € in Switzerland. That was a good fair price (just a tad more than the „Orsafon“ from today). So the prices that are called today for a new MC275 are crazy. Nobody, not even in the USA, can afford such a thing with the above mentioned "OK" job. With the larger Mc tube amps it is even crazier. I bought a brand new MC2102 in 2003 for exactly 5000 €. Today tubeamps from Mc with 8 KT88 cost around 20.000€?

So it's super logical when Chinese half-guns serve a market that can no longer afford the original. The problem that many companies had even before Mc: they take off, become snooty and distance themselves from more normal people. This can have a bad end if a brand only lives on the cult but no longer has any basic products.

 

We saw this in Germany with Wiesmann Roadster, they made an entry level model for 70000€ Then they wanted to build only V8 and the cheapest car was 140000€. That was 12 years ago. They have been broke for 10 years. Morgan is in a similar situation, the entry model was always the 4/4 for about 45000€ in Germany. Now the entry model is the Plus Four for 90000€. Something like that doesn't always go well.

 

 

[Khornukopia]

18 hours ago, Emile said:

About $1800

Plus $377.21 shipping to the U.S.

[Ale]

In my opinion for these chinese clones the Mcintosh look is more important than anything else, the sound is secondary, indeed it is an option!

 

[John Warren]

On 5/6/2022 at 8:17 AM, Islander said:

The concept of piracy seemed to be some Western idea

The rule of law is a Western idea.

[Islander]

13 hours ago, John Warren said:

The rule of law is a Western idea.

 

No, it's not just about law, and it may not apply to all East Asian cultures.

 

Hmm, just realized that this may be seen as political.  At that point I deleted the 120 lines or so that I had typed.  If this is still too much, sincere apologies, and feel free to delete the post.

[Audible Nectar]

There's a whole lot of conjecture in this thread, but has anyone here actually heard this piece?