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Audyssey , do you use it?


mopardave
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I tried the Audyssey function on my Marantz AV amp and did not like it.   I'm using CornScala front and r51 rear.   After the mic sweep in 8 different positions, it turned the scala's way down and the 51's way up.  It did not sound right, so i went back in and adjusted manually.   Set Scala's to -0db, 51's to -04db and sub to -0db.  Sounds much better there, but i am still tweaking.    Sound the sub frequency be set same as it is in the program?   On sub i have it at 80hz and in the program setting it is 120.  

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My experience, albeit with a different tool, has been similar to yours.

 

I found that the Yamaha YPAO on my receiver made some odd settings, and that I couldn't override some of them.

 

I've stopped using YPAO and am now running in "Pure Direct" mode where the input signal completey bypasses all processing and tone controls. I'm using REW and an external DSP to tailor the sound to my room.

 

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I hated Audyssey on my Marantz too. I set mine (RP-8000, 504 center, older RS rear KSW-15) by ear with test tones. 
 

As for @Dave MacKay and the Yamaha. I demoed one recently and absolutely hated it, but it developed an hdmi issue and went back within 24 hours. I put my Marantz back. 

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I don’t like it either,  I believe its a beginners tool ,the more knowledge  you have , the less trust you will have with Audessy, we really have  no Idea what adjustments will be made with it  . I’ve got strong opinions on how things should be set so I use test tone’s and db meter. I agree with all you guys 🤓

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Yes, I use Audyssey where applicable and also use MCACC on the other systems. They work well. It is usually better to place the microphone on a tripod, up higher and a bit forward of the listening position. If the room acoustics make it difficult for the room correction software to get accurate, usable measurements, then it may not work as designed.

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On 4/10/2022 at 9:08 AM, mopardave said:

I tried the Audyssey function on my Marantz AV amp and did not like it.   I'm using CornScala front and r51 rear.   After the mic sweep in 8 different positions, it turned the scala's way down and the 51's way up.  It did not sound right, so i went back in and adjusted manually.   Set Scala's to -0db, 51's to -04db and sub to -0db.  Sounds much better there, but i am still tweaking.    Sound the sub frequency be set same as it is in the program?   On sub i have it at 80hz and in the program setting it is 120.  

I used to use Audyssey in my Onkyo AVR's starting in about 2006. I worked my way up to the simple version up to the top of the line. I now use YPAO on my Yamahas. In all kinds of rooms with all kinds of speakers.

 

My great success with all of them has been to use ONLY a single microphone position at my "nose" in the sweet spot and set the speakers to "small." It works great and is a one button solution to room EQ. Also keep in mind that Yamaha CX-A Pre Pros cost about $3,000, but you do get the amazing ESS Sabre DACs in those, which are the same ones used by OPPO in their SE edition Blue Ray players.

 

Solution is fix acoustic problems acoustically (like black absorptive curtains on each side wall, and diffusion in the rear, then let YPAO, Audyssey, whatever do the Icing on the Cake, but you gotta have a good cake first.

 

Simplify your life and use it right. To that end, I also offer the following observation:

 

Most of the world's speakers are 84-88 db/watt sensitivity, which is what the "Window of Corrective Electronics" is designed for. When you use Klipsch speakers that have 98-104 db sensitivity, the System Gain is too high and it "freaks out" the Audyssey, YPAO, etc. in all cases, and ends up sounding like crap.

 

So you need to drop your system gain by about 10-18 db,  depending on your particular Sensitivity, by lowering your power amp gain that much. Then all will be well with your Room EQ, regardless of brand. I have practiced what I preach for about 16 years now, and everyone who has heard my systems in 2.1 or 7.2.4 Full Atmos with Horns has been blown away by the dynamics, micro details and definitions. Also everyone agrees the Room EQ sounds way better than the bypass.

 

So this is how I fixed the issue I had with Room Correction bugaboos that you guys seem to still have if you have no way of knocking down your power amp sections' gain/sensitivity like with my NC-400 Hypexes for L and R channels (the other channels' amps have gain potentiometers built in):

 

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-balanced-Single-ended-Pre-amplifier-Controller/dp/B07255VHZS

 

Just make sure you use the shortest cables possible.

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9 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

Yes, I use Audyssey where applicable and also use MCACC on the other systems. They work well. It is usually better to place the microphone on a tripod, up higher and a bit forward of the listening position. If the room acoustics make it difficult for the room correction software to get accurate, usable measurements, then it may not work as designed.

If you see my post above you will find I have had similar experiences. I'm a fan of Room EQ when done right, which means Do NOT follow the directions given by the manufacturer, which says to use multiple mike positions!!!

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I bought an equalizer a long time ago for stereo, and loved messing around with it, I would try and try to improve the sound, but in the end the sliders would eventually gravitate back to there neutral positions .I do use equalization on low bass and that’s great, but I’m generally not interested in using eq, especially equalization that a  computer devised  for me behind closed doors, it scares the hell out of me.🤓I’m not saying that Audyssey isn’t a useful tool though , and it’s capable of other potentially useful stuff too , but it needs to be used under  watchful eyes , like Claude’s, because under other less observant eyes, listeners could easily end up degrading their setup and never even know it .🤓.BTW I like the advice about not using multiple mike positions , that’s a guaranteed way to  degrade  the best seat in the house. 🤓

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On 4/11/2022 at 2:57 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

If you see my post above you will find I have had similar experiences. I'm a fan of Room EQ when done right, which means Do NOT follow the directions given by the manufacturer, which says to use multiple mike positions!!!

I may give it another try, but not right away and i will be sure to use one listening position.   Thanks guys

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On 4/12/2022 at 6:02 PM, Tom05 said:

BTW I like the advice about not using multiple mike positions , that’s a guaranteed way to  degrade  the best seat in the house. 🤓

However, I want to say that in all cases, I created the "sweet spot" ahead of time by doing Room Mode Analysis, and positioned my head in the flattest spot. Then I went about doing absorption with "Clap and Sonic Slap" listening test.

 

I did this in front of Paul Klipsch when he gave me a private tour of his museum across the street from the Plant in Hope and he said not a word because he knew what I was doing. That room had the C.P. Boner diffusers on the wall, so when I clapped my hands, he knew exactly what I was doing and did not react. One thing I always admired about PWK is that he practiced what he preached in his papers and Dope from Hope newsletters. When I asked him about the Live End Dead End concept of Room Acoustic designs (by D. Davis, his former K&A President he said never sold anything), his only response is "Nonsense, put the absorption and diffusion where you need it." Only then can you successfully apply Room EQ (Marantz, Onkyo, or Yamaha) as strictly Icing on the Cake.

 

In all cases, my sound improved for both Surround and 2.1 Program in all of my 7 different domiciles in the last 16 years.

 

No product is ever as good as the demo or as bad as an inept User makes it out to be. Unless of course they have a way to do it manually. Personally I prefer the quick and easy solution after all my homework is done. No one who has come over for a Demo has ever cared how I did it, only that they were blown away by the sound.

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I tried it and felt like it completely killed all the dynamics at my speakers… I thought the whole point of klipsch speakers in home theater was the dynamic range and the head room you got when playing a movie…. Really makes me question this whole idea of having this flat response If you take all of the life out of the speakers…. I moved over to a NADT 758 with Dirac, Which I have to say is stellar does not seem to affect the same sound in the same way that Odyssey does…

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7 hours ago, xo705cf said:

I tried it and felt like it completely killed all the dynamics at my speakers… I thought the whole point of klipsch speakers in home theater was the dynamic range and the head room you got when playing a movie…. Really makes me question this whole idea of having this flat response If you take all of the life out of the speakers…. I moved over to a NADT 758 with Dirac, Which I have to say is stellar does not seem to affect the same sound in the same way that Odyssey does…

I agree , I gave my kid a nice set of speakers that I had repaired a few years back , he placed them in his HT as fronts , and center . Then set them up with Audyssey , the result was , as you say a less dynamic sound ,  I thought the Audyssey had clearly softened the sound .As for Claude’s  response ,not  sure  where my contradiction is , maybe because I suggested that  some  people may find a  use for Audyssey , yes , for example it could be useful to tame a  nasty peak . From what I remember, ruler flat frequency response wasn’t exactly one of PWK’s primary objectives. Not criticizing anyone’s use of Audyssey, just not for me…….Also if Audyssey is using multiple mike positions  to calculate an equalization curve ,then no single position can be fully optimized, (not even the best seat in the house ), because a sort of averaging  would likely be used as the eq solution , that’s why I agree completely with Claude’s advice about not using multi mike positions.

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7 hours ago, Tom05 said:

As for Claude’s  response ,not  sure  where my contradiction is

I read it wrong, and responsed wrong. Too much wine and listening to horns. I changed the original to skip that part. Thanks for pointing it out.

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:13 PM, xo705cf said:

I tried it and felt like it completely killed all the dynamics at my speakers… I thought the whole point of klipsch speakers in home theater was the dynamic range and the head room you got when playing a movie…. Really makes me question this whole idea of having this flat response If you take all of the life out of the speakers…. I moved over to a NADT 758 with Dirac, Which I have to say is stellar does not seem to affect the same sound in the same way that Odyssey does…

I switched to Yamaha Pre Pro's (CX-A series) about 8 years ago. So I have their YPAO room correction which does NOT affect dynamics at all. As a matter of fact, I use the older 5000 model with my all horn setup downstairs as 2.1 and it sounds fantastic, with unbelievable dynamics on recordings that have dynamics. I worked my way up the Onkyo line with Audyssey years before culmination in their top of the line version, but rather than "cheap out" with AVR's going the Pre Pro route that cost way more the AVR's was the key. With their XLR connections, they can achieve 8 volt output and drive low gain power amps on horns, which is part of the "secret sauce" in maintaining low noise and wide dynamic range.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I switched to Yamaha Pre Pro's (CX-A series) about 8 years ago. So I have their YPAO room correction which does NOT affect dynamics at all. As a matter of fact, I use the older 5000 model with my all horn setup downstairs as 2.1 and it sounds fantastic, with unbelievable dynamics on recordings that have dynamics. I worked my way up the Onkyo line with Audyssey years before culmination in their top of the line version, but rather than "cheap out" with AVR's going the Pre Pro route that cost way more the AVR's was the key. With their XLR connections, they can achieve 8 volt output and drive low gain power amps on horns, which is part of the "secret sauce" in maintaining low noise and wide dynamic range.

Claude, I have to give you kudos in Figuring out how to out how to get the most out of odyssey…. Never thought about having the Adjust the gain based on the sensitivity….  Great points in regards to this and using only one mic position…

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2 hours ago, xo705cf said:

Claude, I have to give you kudos in Figuring out how to out how to get the most out of odyssey…. Never thought about having the Adjust the gain based on the sensitivity….  Great points in regards to this and using only one mic position…

Thanks. Like PWK did before me, I practice what I preach. I like to share my discoveries with other Audio Nerds here! LOL. Super Heresys, DaveA MAHLs, Quarter Pie Horns, Super MWMs, Coffe Table Subs, etc.

 

Otherwise, I'm just another worthless internet opinion from a mouth size that is inversely proportional to real experience (dedicate Audio time).

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On 4/10/2022 at 9:08 AM, mopardave said:

tried the Audyssey function on my Marantz AV amp and did not like it.   I'm using CornScala front and r51 rear. ,,, it turned the scala's way down and the 51's way up.

 

Audyssey et al is designed to calibrate your speakers so they all play balanced at Reference level on your AVR, usually 80 or 82 db, check your manual for the exact number.  It makes sense the CS would be dialed back and the little 52's turned up.  All of my large Klipsch speakers calibrate the same way.  Depending on the room I use Audyssey might turn LS or Khorns to minus -12 when the AVR is set to 80.

 

I've found that when I use different kinds of speakers and lots of them Audyssey does a GREAT job of making them all play nice together.  Using a db meter and making them all play at 80 db is a crude way of trying to do the same thing.  It's not the same thing because Audyssey also measures the room.

 

Dave, you are not a rookie speaker guy.  While using only two sets of speakers I've no doubt you know what you're doing enough to calibrate them to where they sound their best.  You don't need to set your speakers to the mythical THX 80 db standard like less sophisticated listeners might.  If you added a RC-64 to the middle, some bi-pole RS-62's to the side and some 8" Front Heights, THEN you might need some help balancing all that out. 

 

To me that is the strength of the various room correction programs.

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3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

 

Audyssey et al is designed to calibrate your speakers so they all play balanced at Reference level on your AVR, usually 80 or 82 db, check your manual for the exact number.  It makes sense the CS would be dialed back and the little 52's turned up.  All of my large Klipsch speakers calibrate the same way.  Depending on the room I use Audyssey might turn LS or Khorns to minus -12 when the AVR is set to 80.

 

I've found that when I use different kinds of speakers and lots of them Audyssey does a GREAT job of making them all play nice together.  Using a db meter and making them all play at 80 db is a crude way of trying to do the same thing.  It's not the same thing because Audyssey also measures the room.

 

Dave, you are not a rookie speaker guy.  While using only two sets of speakers I've no doubt you know what you're doing enough to calibrate them to where they sound their best.  You don't need to set your speakers to the mythical THX 80 db standard like less sophisticated listeners might.  If you added a RC-64 to the middle, some bi-pole RS-62's to the side and some 8" Front Heights, THEN you might need some help balancing all that out. 

 

To me that is the strength of the various room correction programs.

Thanks. Have been thinking a center channel would be an improvement.  ill look at this RC-64 you mention.   I think a center is all that is needed at this point, although the phantom center is good.

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