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Cornwall 3 vs Cornwall 4 impression


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18 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Nor have I despite playing every imaginable genre at volumes ranging from whisper to "turn it down, the neighbors are complaining!".

 

Again it isn’t a playback volume activated issue and not all recordings will expose it to the same degree.

 

If someone is really interested then perform a reference comparison with Pink Noise which will reveal the resonance coloration when the two are compared and of course this would be even easier to hear if done outside without the influence of room modes.

 

miketn

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

Weren't the CW111's developed by the same engineering team??  ..Klipsch had computer modeling and anechoic chambers then, as they do now.  ..To me, it's basically amounts to product life-cycle management.  ..Make small changes but proclaim them to be quite large.  ..But when you compare them side to side w/ volumes matched and the listener blinded, I'm betting they sound pretty much alike.

Have you heard them side by side 

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2 hours ago, billybob said:

Welcome back again @Flevoman.!

Once again, a search of the forum will yield threads using about the same title topic.

Hi billybob, You also on this forum?? , that's a coincidence. 😉. Nice to speak to you again!!.. 

Well, believe me that I tried my search options but I could not find any threads about the CW3 vs CW4 except for just one. And also in that thread I missed the nuanced tone when it came to the cw4

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2 hours ago, RandyH said:

the biggest mistake is to compare ,  the CW III to the CW IV looking for a clear winner ,  while they are 2 different speakers using the same box  .

 

-the woofer is higher up in the 3  with the drivers closer together  which packs the warm vocals sound of a Heresy with the enhanced  bass of a Cornwall .

 

-in the 4 , the woofer is placed lower and the HF drivers are farther apart making for a more wider sound stage  , and the bass is balanced  with the HF .

 

You made me think with your comment. 

But isn't this what we all do when we upgrade our speakers or gear? 

We do it to improve the sound quality /Listening pleasure. So don't you always try to end up with a winner, an upgrade? I do agree with you that sometimes the outcome can be that both choices are good, but different. 

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Well, the IV is a better speaker, to me there is absolutely no question. BUT it is completely fine that one may prefer the more "vintage Klipsch" sound of the III... on the long run however, I'd rather go with a more modern, neutral, detailed sound.

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6 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

Have you heard them side by side 

 

NO, CBH, I have not though I would very much love to.  I heard the CW4's at a dealer listening to very familiar music.  But yes, a side-by-side comparison w/ volume levels matched would clearly be best.

 

But if the differences are as striking as some are claiming (not saying you necessarily), shouldn't the differences be immediately apparent anyway??  To my ears - and I'd put my hearing and sense for musical nuance up against anyone over the age of 40 - they sounded very much like my CW3's

 

So what big leap in audio engineering, materials, or computer modeling took place AFTER you designed the CW3's that would cause the CW4 to put the CW3 to shame, as others here (not you) have suggested?  To say the CW3's are hugely inferior is to imply your team didn't know what they were doing before - which I don't think any truly believes.

 

(and please don't delete this post.  ..the last time we discussed this I had a bunch of posts deleted despite never engaging in any sort of incivility.)

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7 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

Have you heard them side by side 

Yes and the CW4 was much better for my tastes. No boomy box sound just great fidelity. Side by side the CW4 was clearly a large step up. Same room same amp same seating so a true side by side comparison.

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@RoloxHave you also owned  the CW3 yourself or have you been able to compare the speakers next to each other?

 

@ODS12350 years, and I'm not good at hearing small changes in sound.  So, for example, hearing the differences between speaker cables is not for me, I simply do not hear it.  I find it also difficult to hear differences between amplifiers.  But I could definitely hear a distinct difference between the CW3 and the CW4 myself.  I'm surprised you couldn't hear these differences. Perhaps the acoustics or setup where the CW4 stood was disadvantageous, so that the differences were not audible?

 

@Dave A nice, That is indeed the most ideal way to be able to test. Unfortunately, a side by side comparison was not possible for me. However, I really knew some songs through and through how they sounded on the CW3, and these were the comparison material for me. 

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42 minutes ago, Flevoman said:

50 years, and I'm not good at hearing small changes in sound.  So, for exame, hearing the differences between speaker cables is not for me, I simply do not hear it.  I find it also difficult to hear differences between amplifiers.  But I could definitely hear a distinct difference between the CW3 and the CW4 myself.  I'm surprised you couldn't hear these differences. Perhaps the acoustics or setup where the CW4 stood was disadvantageous, so that the differences were not audible?

 

Well, you're not alone w/ respect to amplifiers and cables.  In fact nobody who participated in a $10k challenge was able to reliably (ie., better than chance) distinguish b/w two amplifiers that met certain minimum requirements w/ regards to linearity. ..Which basically ALL modern day amps do except for boutiquey tube amps.

 

https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/

 

ditto cables.  ..The only way cables sound different is if they are engineered & constructed to act as some sort of tone control.  ..I'm referring to those mega buck cables w/ weird dongles at their end.  ..Total snake oil, IMHO.  

 

And you are of course correct, I need to hear both of these speakers in the same room.  ..But again, if the differences are as striking as some claim, then the differences should be apparent even in different rooms?

 

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What someone can hear depends on the individual. Nelson Pass had a tester of his amplifiers that could distinguish the difference between a negative going 2nd harmonic and a positive going 2nd harmonic. He tested the hearing of this individual many a times even giving him 2 of the same amplifiers wanting him to compare the two. He came back a few days, weeks, later saying he could not hear any difference. Very few individuals could pass such a test. I am reluctant to say what any individual can hear unless they are just ridiculous. A K-horn from the 60's is not going to sound bad and many may even prefer it over a more modern one. Same with a Cornwall. The Heritage line are the ones most frequently mentioned on this forum when the bulk of sales of Klipsch speakers are not Heritage. Most will be perfectly happy with the other offerings from Klipsch. When talking of the Heritage line on a forum it really is nitpicking saying one is better then another when all sound outstanding. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Flevoman said:

Hi billybob, You also on this forum?? , that's a coincidence. 😉. Nice to speak to you again!!.. 

Well, believe me that I tried my search options but I could not find any threads about the CW3 vs CW4 except for just one. And also in that thread I missed the nuanced tone when it came to the cw4

Yes the Cornwalls have come along ways. The 4 has been reviewed quite alot online.

At a Klipsch listening event, all as can recall came away with a new appreciation for the 4.

Klipsch likely rely on users to suss out subtle nuances.

Yes, I'm all over...lol

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38 minutes ago, billybob said:

Yes the Cornwalls have come along ways. The 4 has been reviewed quite alot online.

At a Klipsch listening event, all as can recall came away with a new appreciation for the 4.

Klipsch likely rely on users to suss out subtle nuances.

Yes, I'm all over...lol

 

This is only because of the recent burst of youtube reviews coinciding at the same time the CWIV's were introduced. Why would Klipsch send any of these channels CWIII's or II's for that matter when they are trying to market the IV's? It's simply because there is no money in anything old to generate YouTube subscribers. The YouTuber's know people are only interested in new gear so that's all they review. People forget that Klipsch is a business now with a big marketing agenda.

 

The new Khorn's with their closed backs have not gotten good reviews compared to the previous models. Klipsch has tried to claim they don't have to be in the corners. Many of the people who claim the newer models are better are not doing real side by side comparisons. Instead they just go online claiming everything newer is better. I work in the telescope industry. I've probably reviewed more telescopes than anyone in the world. I've been doing it for 30 years. The same nonsense happens in the telescope industry so I can easily tell when people are just being marketed. 

 

I don't mind newer things, but when people make claims without doing some real side by sides, it gets a bit difficult to swallow and I'm amazed at how easily people believe everything they're told. 

 

 

 

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I'll never understand why staunch objectivists go out of their way to tell someone what they can or can't hear. Why should they care if someone throws away their hard earned cash on "snake oil"? But they always seem to take offense to people hearing improvements that can't be measured and feel it's a duty bestowed on them by God (and Julian "of all the amplifiers I've heard, this is one" Hirsch) to bash into oblivion any dissenting opinion.

 

Carry on.......

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

I'll never understand why staunch objectivists go out of their way to tell someone what they can or can't hear.

 

 Thank you! I've been biting my keyboard fingers watching this thread play out. What "sounds better" to any one person is purely subjective and dependent on too many variables to list, not the least of which is personal taste. 

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I’ve found that  the only way I can reliably compare good  speakers , is to listen to them at home , in my listening room ,for several days or longer . If I’m listening to a real dog, well those are easy to detect at the audio store  , I can eliminate those immediately   , but deciding on the merits of one  great speaker from another , for me that takes some time , and  after I’ve  decided which speaker does various things better or worse than the other , then its time to figure out which one is more enjoyable to listen to. 

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.But again, if the differences are as striking as some claim, then the differences should be apparent even in different rooms?

 

Absolutely not! And this is because the room contributes about 75% of the sound you hear. So two identical speakers in different rooms would sound like two entirely different speakers. Oh you might notice the family resemblance, but you'd never be able to reliably say which one is better, only which one you prefer. And that is likely because it's in the better room.

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