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Cornwall 3 vs Cornwall 4 impression


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and then after I’ve  decided on which speaker does various things better or worse than the other , then its time to figure out which one is more enjoyable to listen to

 

That's the same way with electronics. You might be able to say one or the other amp is better when listening to snippets of music (or you might not hear any difference). But I assure you that once you hunker down with both of them after a while, one WILL be more enjoyable than the other.

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

I'll never understand why staunch objectivists go out of their way to tell someone what they can or can't hear. Why should they care if someone throws away their hard earned cash on "snake oil"? But they always seem to take offense to people hearing improvements that can't be measured and feel it's a duty bestowed on them by God (and Julian "of all the amplifiers I've heard, this is one" Hirsch) to bash into oblivion any dissenting opinion.

 

Carry on.......

 

 

Because I care about this hobby and I hate seeing it held back by a widespread disregard for validity testing.

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2 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

Because I care about this hobby and I hate seeing it held back by a widespread disregard for validity testing.

 

How is a disregard for "validity testing" going to hold back this hobby? The last time I checked, this "hobby" is about enjoying what you hear, not reading graphs.

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3 hours ago, Schu said:

Give me a Cornwall I over a Cornwall III...

Nothing wrong with this opinion, but please also explain why you prefer the 1 above the 3. That makes such a statement much more interesting and also adds something to this topic. 

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1 hour ago, Idontknow said:

 

This is only because of the recent burst of youtube reviews coinciding at the same time the CWIV's were introduced. Why would Klipsch send any of these channels CWIII's or II's for that matter when they are trying to market the IV's? It's simply because there is no money in anything old to generate YouTube subscribers. The YouTuber's know people are only interested in new gear so that's all they review. People forget that Klipsch is a business now with a big marketing agenda.

 

The new Khorn's with their closed backs have not gotten good reviews compared to the previous models. Klipsch has tried to claim they don't have to be in the corners. Many of the people who claim the newer models are better are not doing real side by side comparisons. Instead they just go online claiming everything newer is better. I work in the telescope industry. I've probably reviewed more telescopes than anyone in the world. I've been doing it for 30 years. The same nonsense happens in the telescope industry so I can easily tell when people are just being marketed. 

 

I don't mind newer things, but when people make claims without doing some real side by sides, it gets a bit difficult to swallow and I'm amazed at how easily people believe everything they're told. 

 

 

 

Exactly this!!!! 

When I looked for information I found a lot of CW4 reviews. And all of them were so incredibly positive that they almost made me suspicious. I really haven't been able to find any critical comments about the CW4 on the youtubetube. That's to good to be true in my opinion. Is it plausible to think that all these reviewers have been pushed to a positive review?

 

Don't get me wrong, not saying that the CW4 ain't good. I think it's a very good speaker!!. . But when I listen to the CW4 I don't recognize them as how they are reviewed 

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

I'll never understand why staunch objectivists go out of their way to tell someone what they can or can't hear. Why should they care if someone throws away their hard earned cash on "snake oil"? But they always seem to take offense to people hearing improvements that can't be measured and feel it's a duty bestowed on them by God (and Julian "of all the amplifiers I've heard, this is one" Hirsch) to bash into oblivion any dissenting opinion.

 

Carry on.......

 

 

 

Because there really are a lot of people who go out of their way to claim things are better or worse without doing side by sides. Why would someone want to trust their opinion when they are not comparing things side by side? Do we see Peducah Home Theater comparing the Cornwall III to the Cornwall IV? No, and we never will because Klipsch nor Peducah sell the III anymore. How's that gonna help a business sell speakers if people think the III sounds better than the IV or not? Instead, people go out f their way to tell everyone the IV series are better, yet none of these people have even done any side by sides. We can't really go based on their memory. It needs to be side by side. I did this with the Heresy IV and people went out of their way to be A... holes to tell me I was wrong. I was very specific about what I liked and didn't like, yet it was met with constant opposition by a group of Heresy IV fanboys who hadn't even done the side by sides themselves. 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

Because I care about this hobby and I hate seeing it held back by a widespread disregard for validity testing.

You should be able to do it. May lead to why one person's

taste in speakers leans one way or to another. Speaking of Klipsch primarily although, applies to other. Pretty sure am not disclosing secret information.

Thanks!

 

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I was very specific about what I liked and didn't like, yet it was met with constant opposition by a group of Heresy IV fanboys who hadn't even done the side by sides themselves. 

 

Thank you, you just proved my point. It's what YOU liked. When I hear an amplifier I like, it's what I like. This hobby is based on subjective opinion. And as it should be.

 

That said, "side by side" comparisons of anything will only get you so far. Weeks later when you either settle in and tap your toes, or you don't listen as often as you used to; THIS is the final arbiter of the product in question. Not measurements, not A/B tests. But what you heart is telling you when you try to enjoy your favorite music.

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

 Thank you! I've been biting my keyboard fingers watching this thread play out. What "sounds better" to any one person is purely subjective and dependent on too many variables to list, not the least of which is personal taste. 

Agree on that, So let's share our experiences instead of claiming which is the better one.

Others can use this info when they try to hear the differences during a listening demo 

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

Thank you, you just proved my point. It's what YOU liked. When I hear an amplifier I like, it's what I like. This hobby is based on subjective opinion. And as it should be.

 

That said, "side by side" comparisons of anything will only get you so far. Weeks later when you either settle in and tap your toes, or you don't listen as often as you used to; THIS is the final arbiter of the product in question. Not measurements, not A/B tests. But what you heart is telling you when you try to enjoy your favorite music.

 

 

Shakey, I agree with you 100% if you are listening more, that ultimately proves you are engaged and enjoying what you have and that's good. That's what I say in my video reviews when I tell people how I judge gear. If it engages you enough that you are listening, then you know it's good. My issue was that people go out of their way to say they like something more than another, yet don't even do any side by sides. People are just trying to get constructive feedback, but that is often met with un-constructive blanket statements that really offer no feedback to help others make choices.

 

My friends argue with me all the time. They can't figure out why I hate solid state amps so much. They go based on measurements. If you wanna know how much measurements  can drive me nuts when used wrong then just watch this. I absolutely can not stand Amir at ASR. I think he's a measuring geek who couldn't judge sound quality to save his life and I'm pretty honest about it. All I'm saying is whenever somebody comes into these forums saying they like an earlier model compared to a later model, they are always met with opposition, and thus, some people should look in the mirror (not you btw) about who's really enjoying and who's not. 

 

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10 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

NO, CBH, I have not though I would very much love to.  I heard the CW4's at a dealer listening to very familiar music.  But yes, a side-by-side comparison w/ volume levels matched would clearly be best.

 

But if the differences are as striking as some are claiming (not saying you necessarily), shouldn't the differences be immediately apparent anyway??  To my ears - and I'd put my hearing and sense for musical nuance up against anyone over the age of 40 - they sounded very much like my CW3's

 

So what big leap in audio engineering, materials, or computer modeling took place AFTER you designed the CW3's that would cause the CW4 to put the CW3 to shame, as others here (not you) have suggested?  To say the CW3's are hugely inferior is to imply your team didn't know what they were doing before - which I don't think any truly believes.

 

(and please don't delete this post.  ..the last time we discussed this I had a bunch of posts deleted despite never engaging in any sort of incivility.)

Never hearing them side by side in a true a/b with all things being equal just makes your post/opinion somewhat less valuable than someone who has. Don’t mean any disrespect but until you do, it’s just conjecture. 
 

and as for the rest that you typed, again just conjecture as you really don’t know. I recently heard a 54 khorn and realized how amazing it sounded. But that doesn’t negate the stuff mr K and I have done to get to the AK6. 

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10 hours ago, Dave A said:

Yes and the CW4 was much better for my tastes. No boomy box sound just great fidelity. Side by side the CW4 was clearly a large step up. Same room same amp same seating so a true side by side comparison.

And I appreciate your opinion, either way, because you heard them side by side……..

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1 minute ago, Chief bonehead said:

Never hearing them side by side in a true a/b with all things being equal just makes your post/opinion somewhat less valuable than someone who has. Don’t mean any disrespect but until you do, it’s just conjecture. 
 

and as for the rest that you typed, again just conjecture as you really don’t know. I recently heard a 54 khorn and realized how amazing it sounded. But that doesn’t negate the stuff mr K and I have done to get to the AK6. 

 

I think you're right on both points.  ..But remember, my original point was simply that, in my personal experience, claims of improvement from GenX to GenY to GenZ have always been overstated.  ..And in those cases I DID compare them directly - volume-matched.

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33 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

And I appreciate your opinion, either way, because you heard them side by side……..

If I remember right that improvement was the opinion of everyone in the room that day.

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55 minutes ago, Dave A said:

If I remember right that improvement was the opinion of everyone in the room that day.

 

Statistically, that means nothing.  ..Did everyone know what they were hearing?  Then of course they're going to think the newer model with the visibly larger mid-horn is going to sound better.  ...Especially if it's preceded by a product presentation explaining how it was improved and what to listen for.

 

This hobby could learn soooo much from how the pharmaceutical industry must prove clinical efficacy (and safety, but obviously not as relevant).  In clinical trials participants taking a placebo ROUTINELY report symptom improvement - often to an astonishing degree - just from believing they MIGHT be taking the studied med.

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16 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Statistically, that means nothing.  ..Did everyone know what they were hearing?  Then of course they're going to think the newer model with the visibly larger mid-horn is going to sound better.  ...Especially if it's preceded by a product presentation explaining how it was improved and what to listen for.

 

This hobby could learn soooo much from how the pharmaceutical industry must prove clinical efficacy (and safety, but obviously not as relevant).  In clinical trials participants taking a placebo ROUTINELY report symptom improvement - often to an astonishing degree - just from believing they MIGHT be taking the studied med.


Why does anyone have to prove they like something? That’s a ridiculous premise.

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13 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

This hobby could learn soooo much from how the pharmaceutical industry must prove clinical efficacy (and safety, but obviously not as relevant).  In clinical trials participants taking a placebo ROUTINELY report symptom improvement - often to an astonishing degree - just from believing they MIGHT be taking the studied med.

 

We're talking about subjective differences here. Are you claiming that I need to prove statistical significance when I say that I prefer strawberry ice cream to chocolate? No? Then why here?

 

While double-blind tests with controls are appropriate for determination of whether a difference exists, they are not appropriate for preferences. If people preferred the CW4 because it was "prettier", then so be it. One doesn't have to justify one's preference.

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I miss the days of going into the stereo shop and being able to compare seemingly dozens  of speakers a/b . It wasn’t always the perfect setup , but  it sure beat what we have today. Today it’s almost  impossible for buyers  to make meaningful comparisons , a big leap of faith may be required,yikes🤓

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