Darkscience Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 This post is nothing more than for me to say how much I love my CW IV and gear. Here is how this week went: 1. Was looking to sell my speakers, (I am moving at some point and just figured why not). 2. I repositioned my speakers in my listening room, (completely rearranged it, sold my love seat, put a recliner arm chair instead, I wanted perfect sound just for me). 3. I was playing a song with a lot of bass, (Come Together from Brian Bromberg, I don't dig it but someone posted a video with it playing and I wanted to compare). 4. I noticed some rattling noises as I cranked it, something made me buy those rubber/cork vibration pads and OMG!!! One of the greatest purchases of all time for me, completely changed the sound for the better, smoooooooth and the lows are so silky from the CW IV, glorious. 5. I ordered a pair of SVS 3000 subwoofers, in messing with that I noticed my Preamp RCA out was broken, that same day my miniDSP SHD arrived FULL I/O. 6. Send my Preamp for repair, and installed the mini, also got Ethernet lines ran to my music room, hooked everything up, it was meh with the subs. 7. While they were installing the Ethernet I put the vibration pads under the subwoofer....OMFG!! What glorious BASS down to 10hz. 8. My second sub had been delayed, I hooked it up in Stereo, everything with vibration pads, used Dirac Live to tune the system. Measure the results with REW before playing any music, Dirac almost flattened out my response from 10hz to 16hz with a light drop off, COOOOL. 9. Grabbed a beer, reclined and put some tracks on, HEAVEN! I highly recommend miniDSP SHD FULL I/O, it is a game changer. The sound is incredible, the imagine, the clarity, the bass it is all PERFECT to me. It is hard to believe it could ever get better then this for me, maybe with some LaScala IDK but CW IV are AMAZING! I am a Klipsch fanboy for life and I am in love with my speakers. The music was sooo good I was literally falling in actual love with the speakers. So silky, so smooth and so clear, with just the most amazing soundstage. I hope everyone else finds this same glory for yourself one day, for me the game changer was the vibration pads, I highly recommend them, idk if they will work on carper and other things, but if your on a hard floor and want to unleash your speakers get them!! If anyone else tries it, I would love to hear about your results, its not just in my head, it worked 100%, the bass changed, became smooth and precise and musical. Anyways, going to go grab another cold one and cranking this system, I feel so fortunate. Metal sounds amazing, Cello, Pop, EDM everything!! (To think I was soo close to selling my CW IV, lmao) 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idontknow Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Wow! That's what matters most. If it's grabbing you, it's good in my book. Really happy for you to have that much enjoyment. CWIV I'm sure is a wonderful speaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Congrats. That's what it's all about. Or at least should be... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschtastic Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Good to hear you have them sorted out! I have my CWIVs on hardwood floors. I’ll have to try some anti vibration pads. Are you talking about putting small ones under each corner of the speaker or a large one under the whole thing? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 I put a 2"x2" diversitech pad under each corner. Previously I had just some felt furniture pads under each metal button. My guess is you will hear improvement, for me it was not just noticeable, it was a complete transformation of the low end and better highs. I heard the difference, and also took a measurement of the frequency response and it showed the low end extending out much farther. For me it use to drop off rapidly at about 38hz, with the pads I believe it did not start to drop off till about 20hz, (at work cant look up the graph). So my guess is my room added gain to the speaker, it sounded super smooth. Cheap to try it, if you do please let me know how it goes, very curious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Every room is different so it pays to experiment with things like you did. I'm extremely happy with my setup. Took me years to put everything together after trying out tons of different speakers, subwoofers, receivers, etc. @Darkscience I added a sharp 16Hz high pass filter with my miniDSP for my subs. It definitely freed up a lot of headroom for my amp. Just something to think about. There's a lot of sub 20Hz content in movies that eats up a ton of amplifier power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flevoman Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Interesting topic 👍🏻. Are these the pads you placed under the speakers? I miss the punch in the bass on the CW4.. Did these pads also give more punch? And what kind of an amp do you use?.. Tube amp of a SS amp DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. anti-vibratie pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8", Pack van 4 https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B01KAFG8EG/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_Z4XJZ1D0DKXA12WGNRH2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlophone1 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Good to hear you got lucky with pads. Cheap and worth experimenting. I have done a number of experiments myself. Not an expert but obviously it is a matter of conducting vibrations between the speaker and the floor. Since I do not have such a heavy speaker as CW IV, I have settled with spikes under the speaker stand and a roller bearing between the speaker stand and a speaker (as described here https://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm). These roller bearing helped a lot in clarity of mid to high frequencies. At one point I had also small rubber mats in the loop and that helped a bit in the bass, but my floor is different so I guess vibrations differ from your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Flevoman said: Interesting topic 👍🏻. Are these the pads you placed under the speakers? I miss the punch in the bass on the CW4.. Did these pads also give more punch? And what kind of an amp do you use?.. Tube amp of a SS amp DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. anti-vibratie pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8", Pack van 4 https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B01KAFG8EG/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_Z4XJZ1D0DKXA12WGNRH2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 yes those are them. See below what it did to the sound. IMO it added punch yes, but look at the graph and decide for yourself if you like the outcome. I ran Dirac after this to perform the room correction, no graph yet, but the sound is obviously better. My room has some nasty voids, from here it is small tweaking to get better sound, but my efforts are satisfactory to my ears so taking a break from doing more for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 I just realized something...I dont believe my subwoofers are doing anything for me? Need to run dirac without the subs and see results, but I am almost certain the subs are going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flevoman Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 @Darkscience thank you for your feedback. What do you mean with the subs are not doing anything for you? They are not working at all?.. Or are they incorrectly adjusted I'm going to order these pads right now I will let you know what the result is with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 What I meant is that because the low frequency extension is nice with the pads perhaps I can do without subs. But I think I could be wrong because I have a 6db boost in the low end with the subs that I would not dare do with the CWIV alone. My understanding is it is dangerous to boost the woofer beyond its rated ability. So with the subs I get better low end control. Im going to do some experimenting tonight or tomorrow with Dirac and no subs. Never dawned on me to even try it. It comes down more to wether the tiny bit og extra bass and control is worth the $2k I paid for the pair. We will see ill report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 I might be better off spending the $2k on bass traps hmm. Edit: Scratch all that, I need the subs because I listen to alot of Metal, I like to feel the low end drum kick hit me. Also alot of Kraftwerk, for everythng else like smooth jazz etc I wouldnt need them. I need more dynamic capacity at the low end that the CWIV is not designed for beyond 38hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Darkscience said: yes those are them. See below what it did to the sound. IMO it added punch yes, but look at the graph and decide for yourself if you like the outcome. I ran Dirac after this to perform the room correction, no graph yet, but the sound is obviously better. My room has some nasty voids, from here it is small tweaking to get better sound, but my efforts are satisfactory to my ears so taking a break from doing more for now. I am glad that you now like your CW4 very much. When I see your measurements I wonder where this very deep bass comes from. The line without rubber pads in the graph corresponds approximately to the frequency response in the bass that I would expect with the data of the CW4. Why does it go so low with the rubber pads? I suspect that it can not come from the CW4 "itself" but that in some way certain room modes are excited? Anyway, the important thing is that the result is musical and you are now very satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 19 minutes ago, KT88 said: I am glad that you now like your CW4 very much. When I see your measurements I wonder where this very deep bass comes from. The line without rubber pads in the graph corresponds approximately to the frequency response in the bass that I would expect with the data of the CW4. Why does it go so low with the rubber pads? I suspect that it can not come from the CW4 "itself" but that in some way certain room modes are excited? Anyway, the important thing is that the result is musical and you are now very satisfied. Yes, I am not an expert but have been dabbling with measurements and reading alot over the past year or so. My take is it is the what I call room gain. Calling it room mode excited could be the same thing said differently not 100% sure. My Cornwall are in corners but away from the walls about 6" on the back and 15" on the side, when I put the pads underneath, I instantly heard not only deeper bass but also smoothness throughout, I believe the smoothness comes from less distortion, (from the cabinet rattling on the tile, exagerated because I never actually heard any rattling except at extreme volumes), why it all of a sudden extended the low end I am not 100% sure about, my guess is the pads eliminated most of cabinet resonance that was sucking energy from the woofer. Just to be clear too I have always loved the CW IV and its just I took them to a new level so that got me excited and drinking beer and posting hehe. I was selling them because I will nees to move this year at some point and figured I did not want to lug them around but now I will gladly and they will always be with me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 Ok, so I redid the measurements. 1. Dark Purple is Dirac with Mains and Subs, Mains High Passed at 70hz 24db roll and Subs one Low Passed at 60hz, the other full range, both mono. (this is not what I intended I screwed it up, so tired...but the graph actually looks nice, no big dips!! I could be on to something, no listening test yet..) 2. Green, original measurement with pads and no Dirac, has bass extension but lots of dips. 3. Light Purple is Dirac with no subs, looks weird, I might have screwed something up, I really need to do this when I am not tired... Anyways, going to do some listening, I think #1 is going to sound sweet, looks like a big dip from bass to treble but Dirac gave the bass side a 8db boost which is what it shows. I am getting closer to getting a nice response. Gnight, wanted to share my work tonight, (sloppy but maybe it worked out great!). PS I highly recommend everyone measure when they make changes so you can see what your changes are doing, and then correlate that to listening. It will help you figure out what you like. My family hates me right now...haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 Omg...ok so dark purple, dirac with subs in mono, with different cross overa on accident, sounds incredible. I think what happened was because the mains and and the subs, basically think of it as three different low end sources help to fill in the room mode dips. The sound is incredibly balanced, way more detail in the low end, i got rid of any boomyness (previously the sound was good but heavy bass music sometimes sounded off a bit boomy and bloomy), now, even at low volume I get the best kick drum punch and NO BOOm. I think all I may try now is maybe tweak the high end roll off a hair higher, (dont need a new measurement just tweaking the proposed eq line in Dirac), but I think I can finally relax and just enjoy the sound without thinking I need to keep doing more. A complete accident...I hope you all get to what your after, its worth the effort. Drank lots of beer tonight, part of the reason I effed up but it was a lucky thing, cause it sounds great and the measurement shows no big dips!!! Gnight yall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkscience Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 I ran a test to see why running the two mains with no subs w/pads lacked the bass extension. It is because the pad measurement I have been showing is only one speaker, both speakers get a nice low end extension with pads. When I run the speakers together the bass cancels out. This is a reminder to me that the low end does not like symmetry, it is crazy to me that the bass goes away when running both speakers together. This also again reinforces my thought that measuring your speakers is a must or you do not know what is going on in your room. Non of these measurements are using Dirac or any EQ, just straight signal to amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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