How to go best way from XLR to RCA and vice versa.

[Marvel]

Although you would have to wire these, the price isn't too outrageous. 10-150kHz  +/- 0.2 db

 

https://www.don-audio.com/LUNDAHL-LL1527-transformers

 

From someone I've come to respect (no, it's not djk):

 

There still seems to be a lot of confusion about balanced outputs. To be clear, a balanced signal is just two wires; the ones connected to the hot and cold of the source. The third wire, the cable shield, is just that, it is a shield. It is not a signal conductor, it does not carry signal current and it is not even needed for the signal to successfully reach the other end. The confusion arises because nearly all electronically balanced outputs are in fact differential and they produce equal and opposite signals relative to analog 0V. For balanced operation, the fact that the two signals are referenced to analog 0V is immaterial. The only thing that matters is the voltage between the hot and the cold.

What does this mean in the context of hum loops? Well, if you have a balanced source and an unbalanced receiver, to avoid a hum loop you want to avoid connecting the ground of the sender to the ground of the receiver. To do this you add a transformer at the receiver. Its secondary connects between signal and ground of the receiver. Its primary connects to hot and cold of the sender. There is now no need to connect the screen/ground at both ends, and hence no hum loop.

[KT88]

18 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

most of us, but not everybody , always a problem with the traffic police controls in germans,  because we have the most dense traffic network in europe. One beer will be fine a second can cause troubble when they catch you, a third isn´t possible, than your driving license is gone

 

Cheers Babadono

 

 

This Kölsch pub in the link below is one of the oldest in Cologne, it was a horse changing station and post station centuries ago, it's around the corner from me, 110 meters. I don't need a car for that. With beautiful beer garden and very good traditional Cologne dishes.

 

https://www.marienbild.de/

 

BTW I like the American Micro Brewery scene a lot. I had some brewery tours in 2017, and I noticed that from Kentucky to Oregon the newer micro brewery beer menus start almost everywhere with „Kolsch“ as the lightest variant and which indeed is our Cologne beer, „Kölsch“. Now your nice breweries offer it from coast to coast which is really funny because in Germany you get the genuine Kölsch only within a radius of 30 kilometers at all.

[MicroMara]

3 minutes ago, KT88 said:

 

This Kölsch pub in the link below is one of the oldest in Cologne, it was a horse changing station and post station centuries ago, it's around the corner from me, 110 meters. I don't need a car for that. With beautiful beer garden and very good traditional Cologne dishes.

 

https://www.marienbild.de/

 

BTW I like the American Micro Brewery scene a lot. I had some brewery tours in 2017, and I noticed that from Kentucky to Oregon the newer micro brewery beer menus start almost everywhere with „Kolsch“ as the lightest variant and which indeed is our Cologne beer, „Kölsch“. Now your nice breweries offer it from coast to coast which is really funny because in Germany you get the genuine Kölsch only within a radius of 30 kilometers at all.

Very nice , now nothing can happen anymore , we got a plan 😂

[babadono]

24 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

most of us, but not everybody , always a problem with the traffic police controls in germans,  because we have the most dense traffic network in europe. One beer will be fine a second can cause troubble when they catch you, a third isn´t possible, than your driving license is gone

 

Cheers Babadono

 

Too much wein same results I would think🍷

[Islander]

18 hours ago, KT88 said:

 

This Kölsch pub in the link below is one of the oldest in Cologne, it was a horse changing station and post station centuries ago, it's around the corner from me, 110 meters. I don't need a car for that. With beautiful beer garden and very good traditional Cologne dishes.

 

https://www.marienbild.de/

 

BTW I like the American Micro Brewery scene a lot. I had some brewery tours in 2017, and I noticed that from Kentucky to Oregon the newer micro brewery beer menus start almost everywhere with „Kolsch“ as the lightest variant and which indeed is our Cologne beer, „Kölsch“. Now your nice breweries offer it from coast to coast which is really funny because in Germany you get the genuine Kölsch only within a radius of 30 kilometers at all.

 

My family is directly from Ireland, and my father used to say something similar about Guinness, that it “didn’t travel well”, and that you had to get Guinness in Ireland to get the drink in its proper form/taste/quality.  Just the trip across the Irish Sea to England caused it to become substandard, but just a bit below Guinness official standard is probably still pretty good.

 

In North America, the beer scene seems to be somewhat different, in that big companies can buy a beer company and the recipes that produce their various beers, which are then produced coast to coast, with a certain beer produced in New York being expected to taste exactly the same as the same beer produced in California.  Getting away from that was the reasoning behind the micro-breweries.  We have some here in Victoria that will come up with a custom brew for a specific event, with a custom label to match.

[KT88]

On 5/17/2022 at 11:12 PM, babadono said:

Jensens are pricey BUT you get what you pay for when it comes to transformers IMO......   and they are available in a ready to use handsome little case..... series is called ISO MAX.

Somewhat delayed I am running my UJ since two months but still passive using a Faital HF200 driver with a third party xover, the bass section designed by Roy. Now I want to go active again using the TAD 4002.

At first I will just connect it as is, trying the output conversion of the Yamaha SP2060 from XLR to RCA with and without connected „3“. We had this extended and to me very helpful discussion in this thread a year ago and with the kind help of babadono it came out that both solutions are a compromise regarding the professional Yamaha output stage. Therefore I will try the transformer solution and my gut feel says yes regarding SQ.

 

So should I start directly with high quality or should I approach to this solution first taking the cheaper way? I ask because I have no clue concerning the amount of difference in SQ when comparing coils of cheap and expensive manufactures. I trust all who recommend Edcor and Jensen. And then there is Lundahl as a high quality firm and also Sowter from UK. BTW this Sowter input transformer was used in the professional Quad 520f amps. I do not know if it is „cheap“ or „expensive“ in SQ, The price seems somehow „medium“:

https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/3575.php

 

This makes my decision not easier, because I like Quad gear very much in combination with horns. That means when I would find two used but sound Quad 520f the transformers were included anyway. (Right now I run consumer Quad amps without transformers).

 

I have found a product, perhaps to use before I go for expensive high quality stuff (or find some Quad 520f). When I saw in the web what @Islander had recommended, the ART Clean box pro, I noticed that it is an active device altogether with additional volume pots and so on. Those volume pots can be helpful under some circumstances but in my case I want to keep a purer signal, plus I would like to avoid additional active circuits.

 

On the other hand the Jensen ISO MAX, recommended by babadono, may have very good quality but all I could find is a product which reduces the signal from +4 dBu to consumer level. Only I need a device which does not reduce the voltage to feed my amps RCA input because the source, my preamp, also is on RCA voltage level.

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/

 

The Edcor transformers would be a nice solution after all what you guys here have mentioned, what I have seen I would DIY the connectors because I only can find the Edcor transformers without case and plugs which is no problem for me.

 

Has anyone experiences the ART DTI which is a passive device and its SQ?  I would think that the SQ could be better than going the active Cleansound route? In addition a galvanic separation could be safer than an active circuit re the Yamaha SP2060 requirements? I saw the ART DTI by chance when looking again at the ART Cleansound product.

Or do you think I still spend too much money in buying too cheap because then I buy again soon?

 

Link to ART DTI

 

https://www.thomannmusic.com/art_dti.htm?reload=1

 

It's my hobby and like to spend the money on the right things when it comes to sound. I just wouldn't like to spend money on something if there was hardly any noticeable difference in sound.

 

 

 

[OO1]

11 minutes ago, KT88 said:

 

Or do you think I still spend too much money in buying too cheap because then I buy again soon?

 no need to say more , you hit it on the button ,  get yourself a  DX38 with the Chief's settings files  , put back the K-691   , and call it a day   

[KT88]

8 minutes ago, OO1 said:

 no need to say more , you hit it on the button ,  get yourself a  DX38 with the Chief's settings files  , put back the K-691   , and call it a day   

Randy, perhaps I was unclear, I almost have the TAD4002 and the Yamaha DSP since 14 years. So I do not need to buy a DX38, the standard older K69 I have also since the UJ were new.

[OO1]

1 minute ago, KT88 said:

Randy, perhaps I was unclear, I almost have the TAD4002 and the Yamaha DSP since 14 years. So I do not need to buy a DX38, the standard older K69 I have also since the UJ were new.

 yes , I got that ,   but did you try  the older DX38 with the K-691 ,  or the TAD  

[KT88]

2 minutes ago, OO1 said:

 yes , I got that ,   but did you try  the older DX38 with the K-691 ,  or the TAD  

I brought my Yamaha DSP in 2009 to the Hope UJ seminar conducted by Roy. We compared it with the DX38. I must say that I and some others liked the Yamaha very much.

[OO1]

.....ok

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, KT88 said:

On the other hand the Jensen ISO MAX, recommended by babadono, may have very good quality but all I could find is a product which reduces the signal from +4 dBu to consumer level. Only I need a device which does not reduce the voltage to feed my amps RCA input because the source, my preamp, also is on RCA voltage level.

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/

 

Heinz …..  I often use the PI-2XX which has a 1:1 ratio transformer instead of the PC-2XR with it’s 4:1 ratio transformer when I want to maintain my signal level instead of reducing it.

 

The PI-2XX can be configured with many types of input/output connectors but I prefer to use the standard XLR IN/OUT connectors and then use adapter cables. By doing this it allows me to use it with Balanced Equipment as well as Unbalanced Input/Output Equipment whereas if you order it with for example RCA Unbalanced Output Connectors you can’t use it optimally with Balanced Input Equipment with that configuration.

 

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pi-2xx/

 

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/PI-2XX-User-Guide.pdf

 

 

 

NOTE:  It is very important to limit the Output Cables to less than 1m (3ft) and adapter cables have to be made correctly (see below highlighted areas of the user guide)..!!!  

 

PI-2XX-User-Guide.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, KT88 said:

I brought my Yamaha DSP in 2009 to the Hope UJ seminar conducted by Roy. We compared it with the DX38. I must say that I and some others liked the Yamaha very much.

 

Your Yamaha DSP is excellent and no need to switch to a DX38

 

miketn

[KT88]

2 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

Heinz …..  I often use the PI-2XX which has a 1:1 ratio transformer instead of the PC-2XR with it’s 4:1 ratio transformer when I want to maintain my signal level instead of reducing it.

 

The PI-2XX can be configured with many types of input/output connectors but I prefer to use the standard XLR IN/OUT connectors and then use adapter cables. By doing this it allows me to use it with Balanced Equipment as well as Unbalanced Input/Output Equipment whereas if you order it with for example RCA Unbalanced Output Connectors you can’t use it optimally with Balanced Input Equipment with that configuration.

 

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pi-2xx/

 

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/PI-2XX-User-Guide.pdf

 

 

 

NOTE:  It is very important to limit the Output Cables to less than 1m (3ft) and adapter cables have to be made correctly (see below highlighted areas of the user guide)..!!!  

 

PI-2XX-User-Guide.pdf 119.07 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike, thanks a lot, that is the product I can use.

[babadono]

@mikebse2a3 thanks for stepping in and pointing @KT88 to the right ISO-MAX. I thought it was incorrect that the only units available loose signal strength. But I did not have the time earlier to help out. You know work and stuff.

[KT88]

Now I am one step further. The Jensen PI-2XX are practically impossible to buy directly in Germany. There is only one Italien distributor for whole EU at the Jensen website. He do not has listed this items. At Parts Express, a piece costs 400 USD and I need two. That would be at least 1,300€ to Germany with shipping, customs and import VAT. A great pity. When I look for something else, I am overwhelmed by the number of different types from one manufacturer alone.
Then I looked again at the recommendations given in this thread. And @Marvel had recommended the Lundahl LL1527. That was a good help to select because Lundahl makes so many types even for the same applications. The price-performance ratio of the LL1527 seems comparatively good. I know this brand from Sweden and I have heard only good things in European forums. They are very common in professional audio.

As luck would have it, used but mint looking LL1527 were just offered in this minute by a reputable seller with very good reviews on ebay for 55€ each. He had removed them from a unit with 8 pieces and there were just 4 pieces left. Now they are mine. I have a good feeling that I made the right purchase for 230€ in total including shipping.
I found the description below in the link on the Lundahl website. It is in my view very sympathetically written, and I have a soft spot for tried and tested classics.

 

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/the-magic-1527/

 

 

 

 

[Marvel]

I hope I am right...

[KT88]

6 hours ago, Marvel said:

I hope I am right...

It is not your resposibility, it is my adventure😀

As I am new to such kind of transformers, there is one think I noticed. On the one hand it is described as a „general purpose“ transformer. This fact and the merit of this type to be proven in the world of the studios ensured my buying decision.

 

Later I saw one point in the data sheet: „Optimum load for best square wave response: 3 - 4K ohms“. My power amp has an input impedance of 20K ohms. Will it work or is this a significant mismatch? And if so a) what is the effect to the sound and/or amp output voltage b) can this be corrected if necessary? eg by using a resistor in parallel to the input of the amp to lower the input impedance, or will this cause other audible issues?

 

The data sheet:

https://www.don-audio.com/mediafiles//datasheets/1527-datasheet.pdf

 

If it was the wrong choice I see no problem because it is much easier to resell a device with a good brand name.

[Marvel]

Heinz, my memory is failing me a bit here, but I think you should be ok. I know for circuit connections, the load usually should be quite a bit higher than the source.

[Marvel]

This is for pro microphones (low ouput impedance, 600 ohms or less).

 

"We want the load impedance to be higher than the microphone's output impedance. As previously mentioned, we generally want it at least 10 times higher for the best results (maximum voltage transfer)."

 

This is called 'impedance bridging'. Impedance matching is having the same load as the output, but degrades the signal greatly. Most tube preamps have a high impedance output and if used with ss amps with low impedance inputs, can roll off the bass due to the incorrect load.

 

So... long winded and not really technical, but that's why I think you will be ok.