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BS Button List of worthy Myths


ClaudeJ1

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20 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Measured?  Heck, I'd settle for identifiable whilst not knowing whether or not it's in place.

 

 


In another thread you said, and I quote:

 

…” break in is a myth that needs to go away”

 

Why does it need to go away? Are you somehow offended by people who believe break in is a real thing? And God forbid, does it make you physically sick? Why do any of these “myths” bother you guys so?

 

If someone feels like chanting and dancing a jig before firing up their system makes it sound better to them, who am I to say “you must not do that”? Who are you to say it?

 

We are all members of a niche cult. Yet we further try to divide our numbers with; solid state vs tubes, vinyl vs digital, horns vs dynamic, and now measurements vs listening. Why not let people groove to whatever they find groovy?

 

I could make fun of all you guys who think wire = wire or all amps sound the same, etc. It would be very easy to do so. But if you think your system sounds fine with lamp cord, throw away interconnects and a Best Buy receiver, knock yourself out.

 

It's not that serious. Really and truly, it’s not….

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3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

Why does it need to go away? Are you somehow offended by people who believe break in is a real thing? And God forbid, does it make you physically sick? Why do any of these “myths” bother you guys so?

 

No one is telling people what to do!  

 

Maybe you don't care, but others, particularly newer audio hobbyists, might appreciated learning about a more objectivist point of view.  ..One that values validity testing and acknowledges the power of bias.  And there's certainly nothing wrong w/ shining a BS light on companies who seek to collect lots of money from people peddling nonsense.

 

If you want to put tuning rocks on your speakers, go for it.  ..No one is stopping you.  But don't waste your breath trying to stop us from calling it BS.

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"It's not that serious. Really and truly, it’s not…."

 

Well, maybe if one has unlimited resources to devote to this hobby it's not, but to the rest saving someone from needlessly spending $300 on an audiophile power cord is kinda serious.  Life and death? No, of course not.  ..But worthy of a forum post?  Yes, of course.

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Ok , next myth , (placing a second subwoofer in a different position  than the first subwoofer) . I believe that most people would be better off placing a second or third  subwoofer in the same corner or position as the first subwoofer , unless a reasonably flat frequency response cannot be achieved at the main listening position . Personally I’m not all that concerned about second row subwoofer response,  l am concerned about good response at my listening position as well as my wife’s listening position. The advantages of stacking multiple subwoofers  into the same corner is great , and shouldn’t be overlooked. Adding a second subwoofer too the same corner, will increase your headroom by a full 6 db , and decrease woofer cone excursion in half .( less intermodulation distortion) Adding a second subwoofer to a different  wall or corner can help smooth out your low bass response across a larger listening area , and this can be an important tool, if it is needed, however you will only see a modest 3 db increase in headroom. Careful consideration should be used when deciding on placement of a second subwoofer 🤓

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2 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

Ok , next myth , (placing a second subwoofer in a different position  than the first subwoofer) . I believe that most people would be better off placing a second or third  subwoofer in the same corner or position as the first subwoofer , unless a reasonably flat frequency response cannot be achieved at the main listening position . Personally I’m not all that concerned about second row subwoofer response,  l am concerned about good response at my listening position as well as my wife’s listening position. The advantages of stacking multiple subwoofers  into the same corner is great , and shouldn’t be overlooked. Adding a second subwoofer too the same corner, will increase your headroom by a full 6 db , and decrease woofer cone excursion in half .( less intermodulation distortion) Adding a second subwoofer to a different  wall or corner can help smooth out your low bass response across a larger listening area , and this can be an important tool, if it is needed, however you will only see a modest 3 db increase in headroom. Careful consideration should be used when deciding on placement of a second subwoofer 🤓

Doesn't this belong in a Subwoofer thread? What is it doing here? What you say is not a MYTH and  not the best sub placement, which can be modeled for free.

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26 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Doesn't this belong in a Subwoofer thread? What is it doing here? What you say is not a MYTH and  not the best sub placement, which can be modeled for free.

A myth is a widely held but false belief, I believe that the widely held belief of adding a second subwoofer to a different location  than the first , is a myth. I also believe that my myth is equally valid as your myth . If you want to debate my statement that’s fine ,or did you want to play by yourself?

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28 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

Adding a second subwoofer too the same corner, will increase your headroom by a full 6 db , and decrease woofer cone excursion in half .( less intermodulation distortion) Adding a second subwoofer to a different  wall or corner can help smooth out your low bass response across a larger listening area , and this can be an important tool, if it is needed, however you will only see a modest 3 db increase in headroom.

 

As with all engineering problems, the "optimal" solution depends entirely on what you are trying to optimize. If you are trying to maximize headroom and minimize excursion, then your solution may be optimal. If you are trying to smooth low bass response, then Todd Welti at Harman may have the last word: https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf.

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25 minutes ago, Edgar said:

 

As with all engineering problems, the "optimal" solution depends entirely on what you are trying to optimize. If you are trying to maximize headroom and minimize excursion, then your solution may be optimal. If you are trying to smooth low bass response, then Todd Welti at Harman may have the last word: https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf.

I agree  ,I always considered subwoofer headroom as paramount  ,particularly when paired up to a Lascala or Khorn . I never liked the common blanket recommendation of how to add a second subwoofer , it wrongly  assumes what our objectives are . Thanks for the link , I’ll read it .

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53 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

A myth is a widely held but false belief, I believe that the widely held belief of adding a second subwoofer to a different location  than the first , is a myth. I also believe that my myth is equally valid as your myth . If you want to debate my statement that’s fine ,or did you want to play by yourself?

I like your myth just fine, but it's more of an opinion than a myth. Maybe we should propagate our own Myth?

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15 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

I agree  ,I always considered subwoofer headroom as paramount  ,particularly when paired up to a Lascala or Khorn . I never liked the common blanket recommendation of how to add a second subwoofer , it wrongly  assumes what our objectives are . Thanks for the link , I’ll read it .

I wrongly assumed you already read it. I've actually practiced what it said for over 17 years since I added subs back then. I never had less than 2.

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10 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Speaker break in time is just psychosomatic justification that budgets a time frame to allow the new owner time to get their ears/hearing used to them. Any data to support the claims that speakers need 10-20-50 hours of “break in” is deserving of PWK’s Yellow Bullshit button!

 

Is this not your opinion? Or was it scientifically derived?      BTW  I agree with your statement.

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klipsch recommends to break in  speakers  for 100 hours

How and Why to Break in your New Speakers

Brittainy Kelley
November 14, 2017

How and why to break in your new speakers

Once you’ve purchased a brand new set of speakers, you’ll probably want to set them up and get to the good part - playing them. However, be prepared for the fact that for the first several hours of use (the break-in period), they won’t be quite to their maximum potential. The good news is your speakers will absolutely sound better after the initial break-in period. In fact, you may want to take care of this step right away so you are more quickly able to enjoy your speakers at their best.

Your speakers contain several moving parts but prior to use, they’ve never actually moved before. Essentially, pieces of the assembly like the spider and the surround will be stiff at first. Due to the rigidness of your new speakers, they will not be as dynamic until they have had a chance to move and become more flexible. Moral of the story? Don’t be afraid to break them in.

Now that you understand why breaking in is important, how do you do it? The easiest answer is simply to play music. However, to break your speakers in well, you’ll want to play something with a large dynamic range, something with solid deep bass, as well as something with a strong high end. Music capable of both will be able to push the speaker to their extremes regularly. You will want to play the music loud, not max volume, just louder than normal. Doing this will help the break-in period occur faster. It will also help to use music that you know well, as you will be able to recognize when the magic starts to happen.

How long you want to break in your speakers is one of those audiophile questions that doesn’t necessarily have a right or wrong answer. 100 hours? You’re in great shape. If this seems unattainable, just continue the break-in period with your favorite music and movies as you would normally enjoy them.

Invite friends or family over to help break them in. Put on your favorite tunes, rock, repeat and the before you know it the break-in period will be over and your speakers will be performing at their maximum potential

 

 

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“Myth” often points to an important truth, it’s just layered with embellishment, exaggeration, and imagination.  
 

Maybe it is all just in our heads, but that doesn’t make it any less real. Psychoacoustics is a thing after all. 
 

I don’t know about that shiny disc thing, I just know I want one. 

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The secret to manufacturers' success and the perceived efficacy of things like the 'High End Novum PMR Premium Mk.II - Room Acoustic Resonator" is  a collection of magic words written by guys like this: Don Draper Wiki.jpg

                                                                    Don Draper

 

Magic words like "quantum," "sweetens," "clarifies," "focus," "definition," and "tunneling" (which taps unconscious memory traces of Roto Rooter and High Colonic to clean that cable right out).

 

It happens I may help market a sound enhancement supplement, but I don't have a Don Draper, so I'll just describe it, and hope nobody can uncover the trade secrets that make it work so well. 

 

"Do you long for more enjoyable sound from your stereo system?  The problem is a lack of the radiant fire, splendor and tenderness that we sometimes hear with live music.  Also, while many people who allow themselves to become absorbed in music played on their stereo system have a vivid memory of the beginning and ending of a lengthy work (think a symphony or an oratorio), there is what we call the Glanzer, Cunitz, Atkinson, and Shiffrin (in their honor) memory GAP for the middle part of the selection.  Take our supplement, Sforzando, 15 minutes before listening and feel your cortical arousal increase just before the beginning of the music, and enhance the hippocampal response, so the music seems to glow.   In addition to proprietary ingredients obtained from Aplysia and other sea slugs, we include two of the Earth's most beneficial and easily assimilated nutrients (C21H30O2 and C8H10N4O).  All of these provide maximum clarity and definition of stereo music reproduction, as well as enhancing memory of music (even the middle parts).  Listeners will no longer have to sit in the "sweet spot" for optimum enjoyment; with the proper dose of our supplement, you'll be happy anywhere in the room.

 

There is an optimum level of arousal and other brain states for the enjoyment of music, and detailed perception of the imaging, sound staging, clarity, as well as effortlessness and high dynamics.  As an example, the very middle of the following curve is the optimum arousal level for enjoyable and high memorability music listening.

Enjoyment/Memorability   th?id=OIP.LFGg_XqOwgRDnud4RKAbSwHaEE&pid

                                                               Cortical Arousal

Either too low or too high a level of arousal lessens the pleasure.  Sforzando will provide the correct amount of each nutrient to produce the optimum brain state to enjoy music as you have never before!  You'll remember it as long as you live!

Watch this space for price list, coming soon."

 

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21 minutes ago, garyrc said:

Sforzando will provide the correct amount of each nutrient to produce the optimum brain state to enjoy music as you have never before!  You'll remember it as long as you live!

Watch this space for price list, coming soon."

 

I have some...uh...dietary supplements that definitely enhance my listening experience. I'm sure I've heard things even the original artist didn't know were in the recording. 🤩

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  • Klipsch Employees
12 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Speaker break in time is just psychosomatic justification that budgets a time frame to allow the new owner time to get their ears/hearing used to them. Any data to support the claims that speakers need 10-20-50 hours of “break in” is deserving of PWK’s Yellow Bullshit button!  
 

don’t know about 50 hours….

If one were to measure a wide band frequency sweep as a base line and then come back and measure again in 6 months a year, two years, etc. under exactly the same conditions, I bet you find the results to be within 0.1 db (the threshold of detection)  if not exactly the same with the deviations being more associated with mechanical wear, changes in temperature, humidity, etc.  

 

speakers do age but that usually means that they are out of the “normal” operating band. I have actually done that. 

Break in is just your ears getting used to the sound of a particular speaker. Sure, there's likely some relaxing of the cone material over time, but I don't believe that it's enough to impact the frequency response of the speaker.

 

no sir  there is a thing called breaking the speaker in  

 

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