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BS Button List of worthy Myths


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On 5/25/2022 at 12:26 AM, Chief bonehead said:

Well Claude. Believe it or not…..I’m not on here to impress you. It’s my time to waste and if I want to be lazy then I will be. I bet…..some people don’t have the same trouble believing that this might only be bs to you and might…..just might have lowered their eyes just enough to find this somewhat “educational”. 

I believe whatever you tell me when your comments are complete and not truncated. Especially those where you pull rank on me to prove me wrong, which I welcome from that same spirit of education you speak of. Besides, I never called any of your comments BS, ever. Not in the 16 years I've been on this forum.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Back to your statement about "3 db is 100 percent." Are you saying you once measured a woofer break-in that yielded that much change? If so, for the entire band? Or just part of the curve? Did the VC cool down before you measured said 3 db, or after?? Did this happen once, or over many driver measurements?

 

I was wondering the same sorts of things. 

 

Another way of looking at it is, "100 percent is (only) 3 dB". That means that driver parameters can change by a whole bunch and still yield just a 3 dB difference. And as I showed in my WinISD model previously, even a 50% change in compliance resulted in just 1 dB difference.

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30 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

It was not a question by me. I can do that with a PM or a phone call. I was just responding to a comment that I deemed incomplete as someone still learning every day and trying to do so. Don't get me wrong.

 

Tame that ego it was a general statement aimed at no one in particular.

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3 hours ago, geezin' said:

 

 

Tame that ego it was a general statement aimed at no one in particular.

No ego. Mr. Manson-like Avatar. Just appropriate response. In like kind. Yet, without yielding accuracy.

 

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9 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

I was wondering the same sorts of things. 

 

Another way of looking at it is, "100 percent is (only) 3 dB". That means that driver parameters can change by a whole bunch and still yield just a 3 dB difference. And as I showed in my WinISD model previously, even a 50% change in compliance resulted in just 1 dB difference.

I don't mean to speak for Roy, but my guess is that he put " 3 dB is 100 percent" was a reminder to neophytes like me that decibels are on a log scale. I believe there were a few posts before that about 20% difference (may have that wrong, but it was posts on measured differences) and Roy posted that "X" was "significant" to him. 

 

"A 3 dB change yields a 100% increase in sound energy and just over a 23% increase in loudness" or something like that gets mentioned a lot in those classes. 

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It's laughable the audiophile world treats these beliefs - like break-in, audibility b/w cables, interconnects, etc - as though they are simply and forever unknowable.  ..Like the matter must always remain a topic of interesting and spirited debate. 

 

That is BS

 

Take break-in:  It would be SO easy for Klipsch to take a pair of Cornwalls - maybe a blemished pair so as to not put hours on a pair a customer is waiting for - play one of them for one full day (24hrs), and the other for 8 full days (192hrs) and compare them side by side playing a mono song.  Can people HEAR a difference - ie., can they distinguish the one speaker from the other more often than mere chance?  ...No need for measuring driver excursions or electrical resistance or any of that -  It just boils down to whether a difference is AUDIBLE.  Klipsch has the means to do blinded testing, so this would be EASY.

 

Unfortunately this will never happen and the reason is break-in and the other myths have profit implications for gear companies and their retailers.

 

I've already said I've done the above w/ my last four speaker purchases.  To date, not one person has expressed an interest in doing it with theirs.  Heck, I can't even convince ONE person to wire one channel of their system w/ pricey interconnects and compare to it the FOB (free-in-the-box) used on the other.  Nope.  So it may be that people DON'T really want to know the truth.  Hence, I think subjectivist audiophiles are as goofy and astrologists.

 

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9 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

No ego. Mr. Manson-like Avatar. Just appropriate response. In like kind. Yet, without yielding accuracy.

Detroit...answers many unasked questions. Bye now.

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4 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

The only thing laughable is how you think you need to "save" the audiophile community from themselves. Broken record indeed......

Absolutely. Somehow his what he thinks trumps what everyone else thinks and I remember his Pro Klipsch Gear is junk meant only for train stations diatribe.  MDF too was quite fun.

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18 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Absolutely. Somehow his what he thinks trumps what everyone else thinks and I remember his Pro Klipsch Gear is junk meant only for train stations diatribe.  MDF too was quite fun.

Pro Klipsch gear outperforms 90% of the multi-way electro-acoustic transducers on the market by any measurable metric in the process of having both, a qualifiable and quantifiable standards. It's 99.99% magnets and coils applied to moving air, with a few exotic exceptions...............very few at 0.01%.

 

Case and point. You could go back to the 80's Klipsch Pro offerings in the used market, get a HIP

 

"The Industrial Klipsch Heresy employs a high efficiency K-42 bass driver with a 100-watt input rating. This 12" driver incorporates a 77 oz. magnet with a 2 1/2" voice coil, resulting in a sensitivity 6 dB higher than that of the standard Heresy. Two cabinet styles incorporating the high efficiency driver system are available: a ported rectangular box (HIP) and a sealed five-sided box with a 90-degree back angle (HISM).

The Klipsch Heresy Industrial Ported (HIP) provides solid bass response to 70Hz (high-pass filtering at 12dB or more per octave below 55Hz is recommended)." - Klipsch

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16 minutes ago, Kalifornian said:

With all the differing opinions and even “facts” relating to BS is it possible that audio is all in the eye (ear) of the beholder (listener)?  

That old chestnut still applies. Easy to say, but where's the Myth?

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18 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

I was wondering the same sorts of things. 

 

Another way of looking at it is, "100 percent is (only) 3 dB". That means that driver parameters can change by a whole bunch and still yield just a 3 dB difference. And as I showed in my WinISD model previously, even a 50% change in compliance resulted in just 1 dB difference.

I recently measured 4 used JBL drivers I purchased from Canada from 3 different sellers. Since these are 35+ years old, AFAIK, it would be fair to assume these are "broken in Royale!" These woofers are optimized for a 100-500 Hz. band. 3 of the 4 were tested for Thiele/Small Parameters. One was grossly off and sent back, but the other 3 met their original specifications from the PDF I downloaded and compared against. All within a few Percent, or a fraction of a db. They are happily providing some great midbass/lower midrange in 3ft. long Hypex horns in a 3 ways system with a mono Sub.

 

So based on this, and other measurements/experience for about 55 years, it's difficult for me to imagine that a woofer could be off by 100% when close to brand new after break in. Not impossible, but rather rare and unlikely based on my limited experience in this area.

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

Absolutely. Somehow his what he thinks trumps what everyone else thinks and I remember his Pro Klipsch Gear is junk meant only for train stations diatribe.  MDF too was quite fun.

 

Wow! In all of my years of participating in online forums I have never had my views more grotesquely mischaracterized.  I don’t believe Klipsch pro gear is junk, so I never said it, and I have never implied it.  

 

It was you who said modern Klipsch heritage speakers made with MDF are junk.  In brief I said the pro Klipsch gear is made with plywood because it is meant to be mounted and used in PA settings.  You persisted saying the MDF gear is junk because it is difficult to repair or refinish if it gets wet. Which is a ridiculous criticism because none of the other gear in my, or anyone else’s, system is waterproof.

 

I invite you to find any of my comments that suggest the Pro gear is junk.

 

 

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7 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

I have never had my views more grotesquely mischaracterized. 

I get ya ,   tell me @ODS123  do you like fishing .   it sure beats the keyboard gossip on this Forum

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