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BS Button List of worthy Myths


ClaudeJ1

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  • Klipsch Employees
11 hours ago, ODS123 said:

I would also add...

 

Tone controls are to be avoided b/c they hurt the sound.  The argument given is that they introduce add'l signal breaks that weaken/damage the signal.

 

Total BS.  

 

What happens if the track is recorded with alot of compression for the loudness wae and for fm?  I use tone controls to at least ad soon life to the song because was recorded horribly  most times it the source material that is culprit for the crappy sound  

 

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  • Klipsch Employees
4 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

As with all engineering problems, the "optimal" solution depends entirely on what you are trying to optimize. If you are trying to maximize headroom and minimize excursion, then your solution may be optimal. If you are trying to smooth low bass response, then Todd Welti at Harman may have the last word: https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf.

Subs reminds me what mr K used say about eqs……..most people don’t know how to use them…..

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19 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:
12 hours ago, Schu said:

People seem to ALWAYS misuse Blind Testing in attempt to either credit or discredit a thing.

 

I’ve done plenty of abx testing. The problem is how does the person know it’s right vs it sounds good to them?

Precisely my point... blind testing doesn't test whether something is better or worse. as you said, in this context, it only tests whether or not a listener can discern a difference... and top that off with personal preference bias.

 

What's worse is when the tester uses extrapolation to try and project test results that fits a narrative... a horrible technique that yields huge errors in data.

 

The only thing I know for sure is that I don't really know that much.

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On 5/15/2022 at 11:03 PM, Chief bonehead said:
On 5/15/2022 at 10:57 AM, Schu said:

People seem to ALWAYS misuse Blind Testing in attempt to either credit or discredit a thing.

 

I’ve done plenty of abx testing. The problem is how does the person know it’s right vs it sounds good to them?

Calibration from listening to live music. I photographed a birthday party in a big house. They had a Piano, Acoustic Bass, and Drums Trio in a large room (still Acoustically Small). After experiencing that beautiful REAL, 4 Dimentional Sound, I was ready to go home, throw rocks at my Stereo System.

 

Remembering an interview with a California Millionaire who spent over $100,000 on his system in the 70's (like $600,000 in today's dollars). He was asked what he thought of his setup. His reply: "It's all garbage, compared to live acoustic music, it's Expensive Garbage, but still garbage."

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1 hour ago, Tom05 said:

What about the WAF myth, our wives don’t have any influence on our audio hobby  , right ?

It's the most variable component of all.

 

I had a great Klipsch Wife.  Before our Wedding, she co-signed for my very first bank loan so I could order my Khorns. They arrived about 2 weeks after our Honeymoon. She even left the premises to spend the day with her parents, while my 2 friends and I went to pick them up from our dealer.

 

When we divorced, she kept her 1983 Oiled Oak Heresys, while I got to keep my MWM Horn Stack and Subs, having long sold off my second pair of Khorns for the "Pro Klipsch Stuff." This is an incurable disease with no suffering whatsoever, unless you owned Bose 901's. If you did, you experienced Gross Intermodulation Distortion, since PWK's measurements showed them to be one of the worst designs. But you have to admire the "Bose Marketing" BS because of the sales they made to ignorant consumers!

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12 hours ago, Schu said:

Precisely my point... blind testing doesn't test whether something is better or worse. as you said, in this context, it only tests whether or not a listener can discern a difference... and top that off with personal preference bias.

 

What's worse is when the tester uses extrapolation to try and project test results that fits a narrative... a horrible technique that yields huge errors in data.

 

The only thing I know for sure is that I don't really know that much.

 

Am I missing the context of your comment or are you serious? What’s wrong with blind testing? Probably 90% of the BS we argue about is because of what we see in front of us. Humans are highly influenced by what they see. This is why blind people are better listeners. 

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

It's the most variable component of all.

 

I had a great Klipsch Wife.  Before our Wedding, she co-signed for my very first bank loan so I could order my Khorns. They arrived about 2 weeks after our Honeymoon. She even left the premises to spend the day with her parents, while my 2 friends and I went to pick them up from our dealer.

 

When we divorced, she kept her 1983 Oiled Oak Heresys, while I got to keep my MWM Horn Stack and Subs, having long sold off my second pair of Khorns for the "Pro Klipsch Stuff." This is an incurable disease with no suffering whatsoever, unless you owned Bose 901's. If you did, you experienced Gross Intermodulation Distortion, since PWK's measurements showed them to be one of the worst designs. But you have to admire the "Bose Marketing" BS because of the sales they made to ignorant consumers!

 

I don’t think everything Bose made sounded bad.

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32 minutes ago, Idontknow said:

 

Am I missing the context of your comment or are you serious? What’s wrong with blind testing? Probably 90% of the BS we argue about is because of what we see in front of us. Humans are highly influenced by what they see. This is why blind people are better listeners. 

 

you are correct... you just don't get it. did you need ABX to make that assessment?

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On 5/15/2022 at 9:03 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Speaker break in time is just psychosomatic justification that budgets a time frame to allow the new owner time to get their ears/hearing used to them. Any data to support the claims that speakers need 10-20-50 hours of “break in” is deserving of PWK’s Yellow Bullshit button!

Roy would have a different opinion on this, but in a different context. For driver manufacturers he mentioned in one class that he had to provide some suggestions (protocols) on how much voltage/power (I don't know the technical jargon) and for how long in order to make their drivers competitive with others being considered. He said they were getting factory fresh samples submitted for consideration and they just didn't test/sound right (can't remember exactly) until at least a few hours. I can't remember the particulars such as the type of driver, brand, etc., etc.

 

So I know, at least in some cases, there are some drivers out there that Roy has found need at least some break-in, and once they were broken in they became the top choice. That "break-in" can be done by the manufacturer in a matter of minutes." 

 

@Chief bonehead would have to give the details

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14 hours ago, Schu said:

Precisely my point... blind testing doesn't test whether something is better or worse. as you said, in this context, it only tests whether or not a listener can discern a difference...


Of course - and what’s wrong with that?!
 

I think most people would find it hugely enlightening to learn that a group of people, when blinded, can’t reliably distinguish one cable from another.  Or one amp. Or one DAC., etc….   Preferences are subjective and can’t be debated. But the ability to actually hear a difference can be objectively determined.  

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1 hour ago, Travis In Austin said:

 

@Chief bonehead would have to give the details

 

I don't it's fair to expect CBH to weigh in on these Myths.  After all, his dealers benefit from them and probably need them to help keep their doors open. And most rely on the "break-in" myth to help reduce returns.  ..I don't think they'd be happy with Klipsch if their chief engineer is on the internet calling all that stuff BS.  

 

I think PWK would have an even harder time.  If he went in to a retailer nowadays and pointed to his BS button every time he heard a salesman talk about power conditioners, speaker cords and cables, etc...  The owner would probably say "Get out... and take your speakers with you"

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I guess that means I probably shouldn't post about how it took two years getting those coupling caps right in my NBS. I literally spent 1500 hours getting the current teflon formulations to open up so I could hear what they really sound like.....almost gave up on the damn things.......now I know why V-Cap runs juice on those before sending them out.....

 

And that's no BS.

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42 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

So I know, at least in some cases, there are some drivers out there that Roy has found need at least some break-in, and once they were broken in they became the top choice.

I'll always go with the 98-99% that offer insignificant difference in the before/after burn. As opposed the the maybe 1-2% you speak of.

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1 hour ago, geezin' said:

I don't care why what I like to hear sounds good to me. I don't measure music I listen to it.

So where's your Myth, Mr. Threadbreaker? Now that we know what you don't care about! 

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