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heritage unavailable


jdm56

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A pair of ServoDrive Contrabasses will match horns for output and low distortion, I know of no other turnkey subs that will (well there's the ServoDrive Basstech basshorn but it "only" goes to 30hz or so). I heard Tom Danley of ServoDrive running a pair with his Unity horns, very good. Of course a proper DIY sub could match horns; twin EV-30Ws, 8 JBL 2235s--things like that. It's a sad fact that as frequency goes down you simply need more driver area to maintain low distortion. If long excursions were a good way to get bass PWK would have made the AR3 instead of the KHorn. Or like Danley use motors that don't have increasing distortion with increasing excursion; the twin 15s in a Contrabass are driven by a rotary electric motor by means of a driveshaft and belt and make long excursions with low distortion. But note he still uses twin 15s. You guys REALLY gotta get out there and hear the ServoDrives!

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When people say you need to have a sub that will "keep up" with Khorns or La Scalas, they are not talking about "keeping up" in output. It's in speed where they need to "keep up". Horn loaded speakers are very dynamic, and thus require a dynamic sub to mate well. This is tough to do in the bass region because so much air has to be moved and direct radiators have a hard time moving that much air, that fast. It has been mentioned on this BB that the best way to go using direct radiators is to use MANY small direct radiators. The small radiators will provide the "speed", and the high quantities of small radiators will provide the amount of air movement needed.

Tom, I'm interested in the servo sub you mentioned. Where can these be found?

Has anyone had any experience with the Edgarhorn sub?

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how do u measure sub speed? speed/pitch definition is imo a pretty subjective measure.

a "fast" sub seems to be a real contradiction

(or oxymoron if u will). no sub is fast compared to like a tweeter - it's a sub. & folks say an 18" is slow relative to a smaller cone. but an 18" still contains within it a 10", 12", on to 18" cone. "speed" is also affected a lot by room/phase distortion.

jmo. again best to listen & see what matches/sounds best. again, for servo subs w/ low distortion & excellent pitch definition, the velodyne hgs-18 may be the best bet as far as sub $5k subs. & maybe 4+

svs subs in that price range would work too.

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Post 1660 was the kind of post that should have originally been posted. It was clear, concise and answered ALL the questions in my previous posts. I have 2 follow up questions...

1) You basically said the price was "out-of-whack". Does this mean the price will go up or down?

UP

2) If the REL doesn't cut it for the LaScallas as a sub (in your opinion), what brand would you recommend??? Again, I am making a home stereo - not a theater.

Other comments here suggest I am incorrect about the REL. I've heard some of their models several times and they are very good at what they are intended to do. Because the La Scala is vey dynamic, very efficient and very low distortion, it is VERY tough to match a sub and Maintain those characteristics while reaching down another octave or so in extension. You can tell from other posts that some people value output over low distortion while others have different standards. You really have to listen for yourself and not choose by the valuse set by anybody else. May just decide that NO subwoofer truly extends the performance and may wish to live without any sub at all.

I have never heard one that does it all.

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WHAT NO HERITAGE LINE ANY MORE?WHAT IS KLIPISH THINKING,IN A DAY OF THE PT CRUISER AND NEW THUNDER BIRD WHY SCREW WITH WHAT WORKS.HT AND DVD ARE NICE BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF USE THAT REFUSE TO GIVE UP OUR RECOREDS AND 2 CHANNEL AUDIO. THE NEW LINES COME NO WHERE CLOSE IN SOUND.

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Yo BG,

Read the preceeding posts in this thread. According to those who should know, the Heritage speakers are "merely" temporarily unavailable while some drivers from different vendors are being put through the paces. Seems a long time supplier has gone belly up. Look for them sometime late this summer with perhaps new and improved drivers (and no doubt, new and improved prices).

-JDM

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Yo BG,

Read the preceeding posts in this thread. According to those who should know, the Heritage speakers are "merely" temporarily unavailable while some drivers from different vendors are being put through the paces. Seems a long time supplier has gone belly up. Look for them sometime late this summer with perhaps new and improved drivers (and no doubt, new and improved prices).

-JDM

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I did emphasize output exclusively, but I did it because it is an easy concept to explain. Low distortion comes from lack of strain (engineering definition) while reproducing a particular sound. A system capable of La Scala output should not be under much strain at typical levels.

Since the highs are filtered out of subwoofers, I'm not convinced "quick" even applies to a sub. A waveform with a steep rise and fall has lots of high frequencies in it to create that steep (quick) slope. A sub will never receive the highs that make the sound seem "quick". Distortion is another matter. I chose my subs because they looked capable of the required efficiency and low distortion. If the Manufacturer's specs are to be believed, and he's not hiding anything in them, they do the trick, at least in the distortion department.

John

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BG,

I wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for the second coming of the Klipsch Forte.

But I must say I think the Forte and the Chorus were excellent speakers in the klipsch tradition.

What saddens me is to see Klipsch moving away from that tradition. A tradition of a great basic design that is then tweaked to near perfection over the course of its maufactured life. They seem to be becoming a marketing driven company as opposed to an engineering driven company. A follower of trends rather than a follower of their own vision.

------------------

JDMcCall

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Boa,

Not to get off the subject again, but what I was trying to refer to when I talked about speed was dynamics. Acceleration (and deceleration) would have been a better word. How fast can a driver go from no sound to very high output (SPL) and then back to no sound. Horns do this better than direct radiators and of course live sound is even better. That's what I was trying to describe, not the frequency that a diaphram moves.

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jmon, sorry if i came off as kinda touchy on that but as an 18" owner well u know on the speed thing biggrin.gif

don't see that speed or transient response thing measured in sub reviews. i always thought it's really syn. w/ pitch definition & really just judged by listening.

anyway, don't want to get this off topic for a sub thing. smile.gif

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Guest JimG

James,

I must take exception with your comments. If you have been reading about the forthcoming RF-7 (or any of the 8 new models for that matter), you will find that it is a very tradition driven speaker. Not only does it push the limits sonically (without going to the next step of horn-loaded woofers), it draws heavily upon past speakers like the Forte and Chorus. Real wood veneer cabinets like F&C? You bet! High sensitivity like F&C? It's higher! Deep slammin' bass like F&C? Definitely! Low bass extension like F&C? It's lower! The ability to peel the paint off your walls and make your eyes bleed without breaking a sweat? Of course! I can't imagine that any of you will be disappointed with the new models coming out. When the RF-7 was developed, it had big shoes to fill. Not only did it need to exceed what the KLF-20 & 30 had done, it needed to represent the core Klipsch tradition of high-output, low distortion, wood box product. It has done that in spades. (I know I will be replacing my RF-3's with either RF-5's or RF-7's in the not too distant future.)

As for marketing, it depends on how you mean. If it means becoming all about technobabble vapor-technology and low performance products like some of those superstore brands have become, then a hearty "I don't think so" is order. If it means listening to what consumers want, researching what your competitors are doing and then building products that have a high rate of success while maintaining your values, then "YES!" - we are a marketing company.

As for Heritage, the hiatus is temporary while we source and develop new replacement drivers as Bob has said before. We haven't abandoned the Heritage models, and in fact are going to add to the line with the new Jubilee model. How many other audio companies have a model that has been in production since the '40's? Once we have new drivers and have gotten costs in line, the models will return.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling. I just got fired up reading what you said. I apologize to all if it turned into a rant.

Jim

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JimG...

uh, "...We haven't abandoned the Heritage models, and in fact are going to add to the line with the new Jubilee model..."

I'd get an unlisted number, move to new digs, and dye your hair... What's that noise I hear? The mad flurry of keystrokes as 8,000 registered Klipsch boardmembers furiously begin hammering you for details???

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