the real Duke Spinner Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, tromprof said: . The lower watt amps loose bass definition/articulation compared to a good powerful SS amp Thank You That's my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 As already mentioned, it comes down to what you are trying to accomplish and how loud you listen. A friend has La Scalas and a 2 watt Decware in a room a little smaller than yours, they will easily chase us from the room. Bass is good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 12 hours ago, michaelwjones said: I represent that too. Had a Phase 700 powering my Bozaks in the 70s... Did you have a sub then? Or had then been invented yet? 😁 Let's see. Rudy Bozak characterized the big Bozaks as 91 dB/2.83w/1m. So did Stereophile. Let's say that is essentially correct. The 350 w.p.c. of your Phase Linear 700 should produce about 110 dB, about what is needed for an instantaneous peak in the bass, through a Bozak Concert Grand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwjones Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 hour ago, garyrc said: Did you have a sub then? Or had then been invented yet? 😁 That's cold... Its true, but still cold. No, subwoofers were not a retail item yet. I was selling audio equipment in the 70s and if you wanted bass, I'd move you into Voice of the Theaters or Valencias. Other than the VOTTs, I did not like any loudspeaker we sold. I auditioned several speakers at David Beatty Sound and it came down to 'horns or the Bozaks. 'horns were clearly better, but like the VOTTs, not practical in my life at that time, so I got the Bozaks and happily moved them around for years. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toz Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 A word to the wise concerning Bozak, they are wonderful drivers but delicate. Be careful not to send them a clipped signal or try to play them too loud. I have come across many many Bozak drivers with melted voice coils. They're getting harder to source nowadays too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimMeader Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 So it looks like the SET type amps will drive my speakers for normal listening without an issue, but become less capable beyond that. Given my room volume and 14 ft listening position I think more than 2.5 watts even with mono blocks will be needed for me Decware has the Torii Jr V2 which I am on the LONG waiting list for. At 20 watts per channel it should be enough for my system and room. Since it is a push/pull design I will miss the true SET sound, but as Steve markets, it has "SET transparency" As with all things there comes a point where you have to put a stake in the sand and move forward. Thanks to all that provided their input 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I had a Torii II driving Klipschorns and that was a fantastic match. That Decware amp haunts me to this day, it was that good. I never should have sold it. 🙁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, JimMeader said: Since it is a push/pull design I will miss the true SET sound, but as Steve markets, it has "SET transparency" Have you considered the SE34i? Never heard a p/p sound like a set and I know several Decware owners that agree. 😉 FWIW, YMMV, IMO/E, etc. Ever check your listening levels with an SPL meter? Edited June 11, 2022 by 82 Cornwalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimMeader Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 The Rachel was my first choice as a single amp. Now two SE34.6 are out of my budget range, but would be, in my opinion, the best option for me. A single SE341.6 is still 5-6 watts which is just marginally better than the base units for my needs so not really a long term option. The Torii Jr V2 is a solid 20 watts which should be more than enough for my needs, just not a SET amp which was my original goal Sometimes you have to compromise and the Torii Jr V2 seems the best fir for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) You gain @ 5.3 dBs going from 6 to 20 watts. I would recommend a Torii Jr over two SE34i.6s (they are no longer simple set amps when run mono). At my normal listening levels I would probably be using 1/10th of a watt average with your speakers. I understand people with little or no experience with single digit amplifiers preferring to err on the side of more. Edited June 12, 2022 by 82 Cornwalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolox Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/9/2022 at 5:54 PM, JimMeader said: Looking at the Alan Eaton and Decware SET amps anyone using them with La Scala's my room is 17X20 with rounded ceilings reaching 14 feet at the top , so high cubic volume Listening position is 12 feet from speakers Your comments would be greatly appreciated You could try with a low power class D amp, like the first T-amp, a Trends TA10, or something... if it doesn't work with one of those, you won't have enough volume with the SET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 To the OP, while my room is smaller than your and I have Khorns in an all active system I have used a 45 type amp for over 10 years from 11 feet away and it would run me out of the room easily!!! I also have a Decware SE84UFO and I had to turn it down 7.5db to achieve the same levels as the Korneff 45 amp. Now I have a 71a SET amp that is 3/4 of a watt that's right about 750mw per channel and it will run me out of the room also!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimMeader Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Wow jcmusic less than 1 watt. I want to be there but I have no experience with anything close to that level amp power being effective. My La Scala's were originally designed as PA speakers where 5 watts were typical, my 87's may have had some changes but were still a PA loud speaker at that time. I happen to like the horn sound and its ability to fill a room with sound. I also believe that half of what you hear is speaker placement and the room they are in. Also the La Scala's were designed for vocals ( speeches ) base was not a major need, so use a sub and get over the lack of base. All this tells me a low watt ( 5 watts ) amp can work, but the at the same time Klipsch rates this speaker for use with over 100 watts. The concept of trying a $1-3,000 or more amp and then resell it if I do not like it - is not me. Because of all of the above and the lack of my experience of low watt apps all of your comments are very much appreciated Like I said before the Decware Torii Jr V2 remains my amp of choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Hi Jim, With Your speakers you will need subs to use a real low powered amp and achieve good SQ, maybe look for a used low powered amp cheaper and go from there. If you want to really reach the pinicle of SQ with your speakers get a good DSP and go all active you will never look back!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimMeader Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 jcmusic sent PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 3 hours ago, JimMeader said: ........, but the at the same time Klipsch rates this speaker for use with over 100 watts. ☺️ My suv's tires are speed rated to 130 MPH, not ever going to dive it anywhere close to that. ☺️ Just joking with you. 😉 What number are you on the waiting list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimMeader Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 just got to 330 as of Friday list update so I figure around the first of the new year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I think it’ll be worth the wait. If I had known my captain beef heart custom amp was going to take this long, I’d have gotten on that list a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Half a Watt is screaming 1/100 W is normal listening The question is at loud listening, What does a piano strike, gun shot or cymbal drive the amp up to ? If clipping destroys the tweeters Does 5 W exceed the demand of the above ? Quote A drum set and cymbals is on average 119dB but can range between 90 and 130dB (decibels) depending on what instruments are being played. I also took measurements at varying distances (at the drummer’s ears, 5 feet and 20 feet) from the drum kit, which helps to illustrate the concept laid out in the Decibels section of this article: Volume At Ears 5 Feet 20 Feet Soft 105 dB 99 dB 91 dB Medium 115 dB 109 dB 98 dB Hard Hitter 125 dB 120 dB 111 dB Hard w/ rimshots 130 dB 125 dB 118 dB AVERAGE: 119 dB 113 dB 105 dB One thing of interest here is that the results don’t always align perfectly with the rule of a 6dB drop for every doubling of distance. This is largely because of various acoustic factors at play. Good read https://pickmydrumset.com/how-many-decibels-db-loud-is-a-drum-set-and-cymbals/ Borrowed from garyrc wts SPL 1 95 dB 2 98 dB 4 101 dB (might deliver dynamic peaks as high as 104 dB--some risk of clipping) 8 104 dB 16 107 dB 32 110 dB 64 113 dB 128 116 dB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 If you can afford the 5W Decware Amp you can afford replacement tweeters Buy the amp, and if you start blowing out tweeters, either turn it down, or get a 30W tube amp Lots of class A that measure well, and keep you warm in the long winters Pair of the beloved MC-30 Class B mono blocks, would be my sentimental Fav..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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