Jubilee thd @ 115db/1 meter ?

[Camplo]

20 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

yes believe it or not (doesn’t matter to me) these system can do a 200-300 seat cinema. 

The 2nd gen puts out some serious bass but I know that its only flat to 18hz via electronic filtering......I wonder what 18hz sounds like at 120db/1m from these speakers. Advertised Specs vs real life.   where it says max spl 125db it slips in "using dsp"....no one knows what that means lol....using Dsp how?  with a high pass at 100hz? lol!

[Camplo]

2 minutes ago, Dave A said:

DATS V3 and a UMike should get you the T&S if you have a sample to measure from. I have not done so yet but have the bits and pieces to do so as I have been told this works. One day I will get around to trying it all out.

If you have used the Dats V3 you'd know that certain information is needed for it to function properly....You'd need Mmd, piston diameter, or similar. The most accurate method (added mass) cannot be done period...I'm not putting putty on my Axi diaphragm... you? DatsV3 won't tell you xmax or xlim, those are the very important to the process....I have a lot of the information filled in by now. Some came from the video on the Axi found on youtube...Some guy in the forums got ahold of the engineering info and passed the theile specs around.

At the moment I have been relying on thd measurements and my ears, to guide me to a proper xo over point.

[Dave A]

1 minute ago, Camplo said:

If you have used the Dats V3 you'd know that certain information is needed for it to function properly....You'd need Mmd, piston diameter, or similar. The most accurate method (added mass) cannot be done period...I'm not putting putty on my Axi diaphragm... you? DatsV3 won't tell you xmax or xlim, those are the very important to the process....I have a lot of the information filled in by now. Some came from the video on the Axi found on youtube...Some guy in the forums got ahold of the engineering info and passed the theile specs around.

At the moment I have been relying on thd measurements and my ears, to guide me to a proper xo over point.

OK just curious. I know you are new here but why don't you fill out your system specs under your profile?

[MMurg]

24 minutes ago, Camplo said:

If you are a Klipsch Employee...

 

@Camplo - I'm guessing you haven't been on the Forum long.  You are arguing with the engineer who designed the latest Jubilee, the latest revisions to the entire Heritage line, and most of their cinema products.

[Camplo]

1 hour ago, Chief bonehead said:

Then you must saturate the tape or overload the bits if doing it digital. 
 

ive been doing this for over 36 years but thanks for the pointers…..lol

Theres old timers at work, they say they still learn new things everyday 😃

I think the ideas of 20-30db crest factor reside from sources with low average....like a quiet section of movie?

Average might be 70 then a loud event happens, know what I mean? In the music I listen to......I am seeing more 10-15db over average.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo

[MMurg]

23 minutes ago, Camplo said:

The 2nd gen puts out some serious bass but I know that its only flat to 18hz via electronic filtering......

 

Please don't make claims about which you know nothing.  The bass horn flair was changed from a 40Hz to a 20 Hz flair and the bass bin was redesigned to accommodate the horn-loaded vented system.  This system Roy invented and pioneered in the Klipsch cinema subwoofers like the KPT-1802.  This is not simply the same bass bin with some boost applied to it.

[Camplo]

33 minutes ago, MMurg said:

 

Please don't make claims about which you know nothing.  The bass horn flair was changed from a 40Hz to a 20 Hz flair and the bass bin was redesigned to accommodate the horn-loaded vented system.  This system Roy invented and pioneered in the Klipsch cinema subwoofers like the KPT-1802.  This is not simply the same bass bin with some boost applied to it.

I highly doubt the front horn has been tuned to 20hz... they may have changed the rear vent from 40hz to 20hz... which makes more sense than what you suggested.

 

Roy invented 6th order bandpass?

 

Also, the rear vent is a Helmholtz resonator, if I'm not mistaken...

Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo

[Chief bonehead]

1 hour ago, Camplo said:

The 2nd gen puts out some serious bass but I know that its only flat to 18hz via electronic filtering......I wonder what 18hz sounds like at 120db/1m from these speakers. Advertised Specs vs real life.   where it says max spl 125db it slips in "using dsp"....no one knows what that means lol....using Dsp how?  with a high pass at 100hz? lol!

Sorry bro. I got nothing to prove to you……lol

[Chief bonehead]

1 hour ago, Camplo said:

The 2nd gen puts out some serious bass but I know that its only flat to 18hz via electronic filtering......I wonder what 18hz sounds like at 120db/1m from these speakers. Advertised Specs vs real life.   where it says max spl 125db it slips in "using dsp"....no one knows what that means lol....using Dsp how?  with a high pass at 100hz? lol!

Lol

[MMurg]

17 minutes ago, Camplo said:

I highly doubt the front horn has been tuned to 20hz... they may have changed the rear vent from 40hz to 20hz... which makes more sense than what you suggested.

 

Roy invented 6th order bandpass?

 

So, you're suggesting that Roy lied to me and a room full of first gen Jubilee owners in-person about this?  Well, my ears tell me he was telling the truth.  We heard the first production prototypes in the Klipsch lab listening room in Hope with both Roy's demo tracks and our own music selections.  You can read about it here: 

 

 

Now there is a pair sitting in my living room.  These are the lowest distortion speakers I've ever heard.

 

Roy patented the horn-loaded vented system.  Read it for yourself: 

 

[Camplo]

51 minutes ago, Dave A said:

OK just curious. I know you are new here but why don't you fill out your system specs under your profile?

I've been apart of many many forums in my time and I've never done that. No reason, just seemed extra....You could jst ask me if you'd like

Axi2050 on a 150hz elliptical tractrix

Acoustic elegance td15m with a pair of td18H+ on the bottom in a PPSL.

Using crown cts amps for the moment. Plan on using a Audio Lense for Dsp eventually but for now the amps have a Usp4 input cards with 36 or 24 band eq.

3 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

Sorry bro. I got nothing to prove to you……lol

I agree with you sir..... I am here for the 2nd gen Jubilee actually lol

[Chief bonehead]

44 minutes ago, Camplo said:

Theres old timers at work, they say they still learn new things everyday 😃

I think the ideas of 20-30db crest factor reside from sources with low average....like a quiet section of movie?

Average might be 70 then a loud event happens, know what I mean? In the music I listen to......I am seeing more 10-15db over average.

From people that know what they are doing….that’s how this ole timer keeps learning. 

[Chief bonehead]

2 minutes ago, MMurg said:

 

So, you're suggesting that Roy lied to me and a room full of first gen Jubilee owners in-person about this?  Well, my ears tell me he was telling the truth.  We heard the first production prototypes in the Klipsch lab listening room in Hope with both Roy's demo tracks and our own music selections.  You can read about it here: 

 

 

Now there is a pair sitting in my living room.  These are the lowest distortion speakers I've ever heard.

 

Roy patented the horn-loaded vented system.  Read it for yourself: 

 

I sell snake oil bro!!

[Camplo]

3 hours ago, MMurg said:

So, you're suggesting that Roy lied to me and a room full of first gen Jubilee owners in-person about this?  Well, my ears tell me he was telling the truth.  We heard the first production prototypes in the Klipsch lab listening room in Hope with both Roy's demo tracks and my own music selections.  You can read about it here: 

I'll have to take your word for it, until I read the material you shared.....

 

Little thought experiment....if the front horn is tuned to 20hz whats the rear tuned to? 20hz as well? Thats not whats usually done....If you are suggesting that the front horn is tuned via quarter wavelength tuning I can almost guarantee that you were lied to......a 20hz 1/4wl horn wont fit in most peoples living room!

Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo

[MMurg]

2 minutes ago, Camplo said:

I agree with you sir..... I am here for the 2nd gen Jubilee actually lol

 

Who do you think designed the 2nd gen Jubilee and worked with Paul Klipsch to design the first gen?  The man whom with you've been arguing.

[Camplo]

3 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

From people that know what they are doing….that’s how this ole timer keeps learning. 

That graph is an survey done by Meyers....I think they are likely reliable lol....about 20db headroom seems enough for most material according to that chart.

But this is why measurements are so important.....to weed out the opinions show the raw data....

[Camplo]

8 minutes ago, MMurg said:

Who do you think designed the 2nd gen Jubilee and worked with Paul Klipsch to design the first gen?  The man whom with you've been arguing.

How many high spl THD measurements has he shown? Likely non..... Hiding measurements is as sketchy as it gets.

In the very first post of this thread I shared my high level thd measurements....If he's here not to share as openly as I did, whats the point? To state opinion.....this whole thread is based on raw measurements not someones opinion. I see a lot of talking but not measurements.....half stepping

 

 

 

Salesman - " It sounds amazing!"
Engineer- "All thd is under 1% at 90db....heres a Rew file taken at 1m at 90db so you can see the details for yourself" 

See the difference?
I go more for the techinical side of things 😃

Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo

[MMurg]

1 minute ago, Camplo said:

How many high spl THD measurements has he shown? Likely non..... Hiding measurements is as sketchy as it gets.

 

Sure, he's going to divulge Klipsch engineering data to satisfy some person on the internet.  You're welcome to go find a pair and listen or measure for yourself.

[Camplo]

9 minutes ago, MMurg said:

 

Sure, he's going to divulge Klipsch engineering data to satisfy some person on the internet.  You're welcome to go find a pair and listen or measure for yourself.

Eventually someone will....Erins Audio corner has a large list of models that have gone under the microscope....Jbl m2 made it to his table even....Just a matter of time

Literally any Jubilee owner with a measurement mic and a free program called Room eq wizard can take useful measurements. All it takes is for one to share.....people do it all the time lol!

 

How far would you go to satisfy potential customers? Its kinda strange that manufactures hide this stuff tbh......if its sooo good....why hide? lol

I shared the Rew measurements to my Axi and my woofers..... Think someones gonna send a hit man? lol!

with a little bit of info regarding the woofers I could probably model the woofer cabinet in Hornresp I would think.... I am more interested in the k-402 horn using the Axi2050.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo

[MMurg]

5 minutes ago, Camplo said:

Eventually someone will....Erins Audio corner has a large list of models that have gone under the microscope....Jbl m2 made it to his table even....Just a matter of time

Literally any Jubilee owner with a measurement mic and a free program called Room eq wizard can take useful measurements. All it takes is for one to share.....people do it all the time lol!

 

How far would you go to satisfy potential customers? Its kinda strange that manufactures hide this stuff tbh......if its sooo good....why hide? lol

I shared the Rew measurements to my Axi and my woofers..... Think someones gonna send a hit man? lol!

 

Do you really think that a person who's been in the industry as long as Roy has doesn't already know that?  And apparently, you've never worked as engineer for a company that manufactures consumer products as I have.  Then you might understand why most engineering data is internal and proprietary.  When you publicly release performance data it can sometimes be considered a form guarantee during lawsuits.  There is little benefit to releasing more information than what you are prepared to guarantee about your product.  They are not necessarily "hiding" the data to fool anybody.  It's not strange at all.