MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Hi All, I'm trying to disassemble a Belle Klipsch so that I can get the grills out. I want to try a scratch cover treatment on the places where the lacquer is messed up and I didn't want to get it on the grills. I also figured the least conspicuous place to try it was the inside bottom of the top hat. I removed the motorboard/grill/driver assembly and the crossover without issue. I removed the six screws along the front and back inside edges of the bottom of the top hat (green box showing where one was in the picture). I thought that would free the top hat, but it won't budge. I tried loosening one of the nuts on the bolts holding the top hat sides on (red box), but now it just spins because I have no way of grabbing the head of the bolt. Am I missing something? Do I need to get these nuts off as well? If so, how do I do that when I have no access to the bolt head? Another issue I have is with the hatch on the bottom that I assume gives you access to the woofer inside the doghouse. I removed all the screws, but it won't budge either. Should it just come off once the screws are out? I feel a little something sticky along one edge. Is there a foam seal for the doghouse hatch? Is it possible that degraded and is acting like an adhesive? Any suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 17 minutes ago, MMurg said: Another issue I have is with the hatch on the bottom that I assume gives you access to the woofer inside the doghouse. I removed all the screws, but it won't budge either. Should it just come off once the screws are out? I feel a little something sticky along one edge. Is there a foam seal for the doghouse hatch? Is it possible that degraded and is acting like an adhesive? Any suggestions? I think you are correct in your assumption about the seal getting old and sticky. A thin putty knife and some good old persuasion should get it off. Then probably a replacement will be in order. Now as to the nut......the head of the bolt is not under the collar countersunk into the wood of the collar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 If all else fails medieval methods are called for. Take a pair of vice grips and attach to the threaded portion of the bolt that spins. Then use a wrench to spin the nut up as far as you can. Then cut the bolt under the nut you just raised. A last ditch method after everything else has failed. I've restored a lot of old motorcycles and run into things like that frequently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Try pressing a putty knife against the upper exposed threads in the top-hat, so the screw gets jammed against the wood and turn the nut with an open end wrench or pliers. After it is loose enough, move the putty knife under the nut and repeat. On the woofer door, insert an oversize screw thread into one hole and pull or pry on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 38 minutes ago, babadono said: I think you are correct in your assumption about the seal getting old and sticky. A thin putty knife and some good old persuasion should get it off. Then probably a replacement will be in order. Now as to the nut......the head of the bolt is not under the collar countersunk into the wood of the collar? There is no access to the head of the bolt that I can see. It either goes just inside the collar or through the collar. I hope it's not something evil like it goes all the way through the top of the bass bin. Looking at Belle drawings I found on the Forum, that would put the bolt head inside the bass horn behind the grills. That would be some great Catch-22 situation as I think the grills are screwed in from the top (under the top hat) and the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 30 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: Try pressing a putty knife against the upper exposed threads in the top-hat, so the screw gets jammed against the wood and turn the nut with an open end wrench or pliers. After it is loose enough, move the putty knife under the nut and repeat. Success on the nuts holding the side panels! Thanks! After loosening both so they were spinning, I pulled up on the side panel to put the bolt in tension and used a socket to get it to move up a small amount. Once that was done, I pulled up, pressed the putty knife against the bolt underneath the panel, and was able to use the socket to remove it the rest of the way. Once the panel was off, that exposed an additional screw holding the bottom panel of the top hat down. I'll do the other side panel tomorrow. Now I have to figure out how I'm going to retighten those bolts when I put the speaker back together. I wonder if the tension trick will work for tightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 I don't understand the fastener choice here. The top board of the top hat is connected to top flange of the side panel with wood screws that are screwed directly into the top board. However, for the same connection with the bottom board they used flat head machine screws and nuts. Also, it's in a place where you have no access to the screw head when you have to tighten it. I don't get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 HDBRbuilder might have some insight as to how the Belles go together and come apart. There has to be some way to secure the bolt heads so the nuts can be tightened properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 41 minutes ago, MMurg said: Now I have to figure out how I'm going to retighten those bolts when I put the speaker back together. I wonder if the tension trick will work for tightening. If you are planning to remove the panel so that the screw heads are accessible, you could epoxy the heads to the wood. Be ready to temporarily slip the side panel back over the screw threads, so the screws are properly aligned when the epoxy hardens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: If you are planning to remove the panel so that the screw heads are accessible, you could epoxy the heads to the wood. Be ready to temporarily slip the side panel back over the screw threads, so the screws are properly aligned when the epoxy hardens. I was thinking about maybe putting threaded inserts into the bottom board where the through holes are now. This is an older Belle made of lumber core panels. So, it should hold threaded inserts well. Then I could just use pan head machine screws from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 33 minutes ago, Islander said: HDBRbuilder might have some insight as to how the Belles go together and come apart. There has to be some way to secure the bolt heads so the nuts can be tightened properly. @HDBRbuilder - Any suggestions on how to tighten the machine screws/bolts that hold the Belle Klipsch top hat side panels to the top hat bottom board? There is no access to the head of the machine screw heads once you put the bottom board in place and screw in the screw that goes under each of the side panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, MMurg said: I was thinking about maybe putting threaded inserts into the bottom board where the through holes are now. This is an older Belle made of lumber core panels. So, it should hold threaded inserts well. Then I could just use pan head machine screws from above. Epoxy on the original screw heads might be easier (if I was doing it), but threaded inserts are a very good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Another way would be to run a nut down the threads and tighten it. Then countersink a recess into the piece of wood that sits over the newly installed nut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: Epoxy on the original screw heads might be easier (if I was doing it), but threaded inserts are a very good idea. If the threads ever get messed up, having permanently epoxied screws might end up being a nightmare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 insert dowel and wood glue, allow to harden and re-tap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Many of the bolt holes and screw holes in vintage speakers were drilled by hand, without a jig, and so each one will have its own unique position. It is important to preserve that original alignment so the parts can be easily re-assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 I tried some of the Trade Secret scratch remover on a few pieces so far. I decided to try the light color one first as the speaker finish is really a medium color. I'm very pleased with the results so far. Here are before and after shots of the top board. I'll reevaluate after letting it dry a while and see if I need another coat. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 I definitely needed to remove the bass bin hatch as two bass bin grill screws are under it. The problem was as suspected. The adhesive on the old gasket became soft and runny and glued the hatch shut. A wood chisel, hammer, and some gentle tapping/prying allowed me to get under it and pry it. Luckily, I happen to have some peel and stick speaker gasket stripping from a previous VMPS subwoofer passive radiator repair that looks to be the same size as the stuff I scraped off. My only issue now is what to do about the old glue still stuck to the hatch door. I scraped off as much as I could with a putty knife. Normally, I'd try Goo Gone or something similar, but I don't want that soaking into the bare wood. Short of making a new hatch door, what are my options? Can I just put the new gasket over the old glue since it will be held in place by the hatch? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I would run an Orbital sander over the old glue and then your new gasket tape should stick, nice and flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 if it's only the GUM... you could try some Bestine, its made for reducing gum/adhesive. otherwise a mechanical sander or hand sander would probably work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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