Klipschguy Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Recently, I was a bit surprised to discover the AA Network in the Klipschorn sounds perceptibly better to my ear with a steel screw (not stainless or brass) securing the .245mh inductor. It seems to give a little more energy to the lower treble that to my ear is necessary to that “magic Khorn sound”; with the brass screw it sounds a just a tad “too polite” (again, to my ear). My inductance meter shows .24mh (brass screw) versus .34mh (steel screw). I realize this post is going against the grain, so I was a little hesitant to post. If anyone is interested, the screw is a #8 1.5” steel Phillips pan-head. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Repent. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 If it sounds better to you, great! You’re the only person your Khorns have to please, unless maybe there’s someone else who shares your listening room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Klipschguy said: Recently, I was a bit surprised to discover the AA Network in the Klipschorn sounds perceptibly better to my ear with a steel screw (not stainless or brass) securing the .245mh inductor. It seems to give a little more energy to the lower treble that to my ear is necessary to that “magic Khorn sound”; with the brass screw it sounds a just a tad “too polite” (again, to my ear). My inductance meter shows .24mh (brass screw) versus .34mh (steel screw). I realize this post is going against the grain, so I was a little hesitant to post. If anyone is interested, the screw is a #8 1.5” steel Phillips pan-head. Good choice on the wood screw. A stainless screw would sound too sterile, which a drywall screw is too brittle. Galvanized in rough sounding too. Did you use a course thread softwood screw for a course sound or a fine thread screw for a more refined sound. 😆 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 I am too lazy to calculate the change in the crossover frequency with .24mh versus .34mh. Anyone have a calculator handy? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Who really knows if a steel screw is what the engineers wanted. If I were to guess I would say mistake in the assembly line and not what the engineers wanted. I can understand how a steel screw would change the inductance. Makes an iron core inductor with a steel screw. I have not taken the time to do the math but with such a small change in inductance I doubt seriously if it makes that much difference. Like islander said, whatever you like is the correct way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 I rebuilt a pair of crossovers for a pair of 1950s Khorns (not mine); they had brass machine screws in the 500-5000 from way back, so the engineers are/were aware. 1976 Khorns have steel from the factory (which is when I noticed the sound difference upon replacement with stainless). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Repent. At least, he should request to lock the thread next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Try a solid gold screw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Employees took parts home and built networks for extra money. Someone eventually caught the steel screw because they stopped doing it. The steel screw takes it 40% out of tolerance. Probably moves the corner frequency a little and messes with the EQ PK put in. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Employees took parts home and built networks for extra money. Someone eventually caught the steel screw because they stopped doing it. The steel screw takes it 40% out of tolerance. Probably moves the corner frequency a little and messes with the EQ PK put in. It's hard to control quality that way, which they obviously found out very quick. Sounds like a great idea until the Turkey (101) starts flying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 What probably happened is the assemblers ran out of brass screws and thought what are we going to do now to make the deadline. Then one said "oh I know where some screws are in the stock room" and went and grabbed whatever was available. Makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 14 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Employees took parts home and built networks for extra money. Someone eventually caught the steel screw because they stopped doing it. The steel screw takes it 40% out of tolerance. Probably moves the corner frequency a little and messes with the EQ PK put in. It sounds like the steel screw may have been a production oversight. I am generally a “tweak skeptic”, but a little more energy to the the lower range of the K77 is a good thing to my ear. With a cost of about 50 cents, it is certainly one of the cheaper tweaks in audio! Thank you all for taking time to reply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Those that have listened with their speakers for years, decades, that had the steel screw probably would not like it any other way. That is if they could distinguish the difference. I dare say most could not. As with many things either way is plenty good enough. In my old age I do not nitpick on these kind of things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 I have seen the occasional steel screw through an inductor in what were, presumably, unmolested networks just as they were when they left the Klipsch factory. I always replaced them with nonferrous screws, figuring it couldn’t hurt, but I can’t honestly say I noticed a difference. i’m assuming that brass or stainless screws were the specification and that steel was a production error, Does anyone, @HDBRbuilder or @JRH, know if Klipsch ever intentionally used steel screws to anchor inductors? FYI Speakerlab avoided the issue by gluing inductors to the network board; not an elegant looking solution, but it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 DizRotus, same path, different result. Maybe a little test is in order? Henry, like you, I have been around music/audio/electronics a long time and I often leave “well enough alone.” As a 21 year member of this forum, I rarely post anymore, but I felt this moment of serendipity was worth sharing. I may stand corrected. Thank you again for your thoughtful replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 13 hours ago, Klipschguy said: I am too lazy to calculate the change in the crossover frequency with .24mh versus .34mh. Anyone have a calculator handy? Although this simulation shows the voltage across an 8 ohm resistor, it gives you an idea of the change. Red is .245mh, blue .34mh. Mike 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Most repair technicians when needing a part look at what they have in stock at the closest value to what is needed. At least those that know and understand what they are doing. Changing a few hz, V's, resistance or inductance is not going to be earthshaking in most electronic circuits unless we are talking lab test equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_flht Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 14 hours ago, Klipschguy said: I am too lazy to calculate the change in the crossover frequency with .24mh versus .34mh. Anyone have a calculator handy? Use This : https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/Software.html you can thus simulate 2µF + 0.245mH + 2µF and compare with 2µF + 0.340mH + 2µF 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, mustang_flht said: Use This : https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/Software.html you can thus simulate 2µF + 0.245mH + 2µF and compare with 2µF + 0.340mH + 2µF 😉 Is VituixCAD more accurate than LTspice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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