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Crossover Capacitors and Crossovers In General


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Captainbeefheart, one more Q. If it works so well to connect different values in parallel and if you get approximately the same ESR values in parallel in comparison to fit one cap why are you still looking so hard for correct 13uF caps?

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3 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Both your answers make me feel very positive, CBH. Thank you for the detailed and technically high-quality explanation of the ESR for parallel caps. Practically, both your answers in their combination mean that I can achieve the correct capacitance in sum with standard values in parallel connection. (The blessing of JEM components will follow later).

 

It's nice when all the maths work out :D

 

For a company it looks more professional and in the long run cost effective to just have a single capacitor with the correct value. But for the rest of us that want other options besides from JEM, me personally I want something closer to the original capacitors in construction which would be a film and foil not a metallized film. I'll have many more options with paralleling capacitors vs trying to find the exact non-standard value.

 

I also have used paper and foil and metallized paper in Klipsch networks and they sound great, possibly a hair better but I don't trust my ears/brain to be that precise. Technically paper is a more linear dielectric vs polyester so maybe I am hearing less distortion but I doubt it at such low levels. I've never measured the distortion difference with them. Again I'd prefer a paper and foil in oil vs metallized paper in oil.

 

Either direction I go with my Heresy's I won't have to worry about the 13uF and so finding 2uF in paper and foil is pretty easy. So I'm leaning towards hermetically sealed NOS Russian PIO caps made with foil.

 

 

These are the types I have my eye on. The KBG types are oil paper and aluminum foil types, very high quality and were the best I have heard in Klipsch networks.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354233611504

 

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8 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Captainbeefheart, one more Q. If it works so well to connect different values in parallel and if you get approximately the same ESR values in parallel in comparison to fit one cap why are you still looking so hard for correct 13uF caps?

 

It just looks tidier and more professional on a board. I'm at the point now where I just don't care anymore and it's just not worth waiting because it will sound the same in the end which is all that matters. Just preference to keep the same board footprint and mounting.

 

Same reason Klipsch wants correct values, looks professional and tidier.

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4 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

ESR = tan / 2πfc

 

When two caps are parallel the ESR is also in parallel

 

If you crunch the numbers with capacitors that have the same tangent (loss angle) and you put them in parallel you'll see ESR hasn't really changed from just one single capacitor.

 

And no there is no issue paralleling any capacitor values no matter how far apart they are in value.

 

Tangent of say .06 for a film

 

8.2uF and 4.7uF vs 13uF

 

13uF

 

.06 / 2*π*1000*.000013 = .7 ohms ESR

 

8.2uF

 

.06 / 2*π*1000*.0000082 = 1.16 ohms ESR

 

4.7uF

 

.06 / 2*π*1000*.0000047 = 2 ohms ESR

 

Since the two ESR's are in parallel, that's 1.16 ohms and 2 ohms in parallel

 

1 / ((1/1.16)+(1/2)) = .73 ohms ESR

 

I thought one had to calculate the Impedance |Z| and the Phase φ of each capacitor and then add those two results in parallel.  Using a few online calculators I came up with a combined ESR of around .92 ohms doing so.
 

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3 hours ago, mboxler said:

 

I thought one had to calculate the Impedance |Z| and the Phase φ of each capacitor and then add those two results in parallel.  Using a few online calculators I came up with a combined ESR of around .92 ohms doing so.
 

 

For what we are doing, capacitors are relatively the same construction, same loss angle, close enough in value of capacitance to where viewing it like I am is fine.

 

If one was say to use a 10,000uF electrolytic and paralleled it with a 1000pF ceramic then due to the "resistive" elements of the eqivalent circuit (ESR) not being technically in parallel use the impedance formula.

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/esr-with-paralleld-capacitors.347197/

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12 hours ago, Curious_George said:

A "sailor" can be a bit much, however, I have found that someone from New York or New York/Italian, is more refined...

I don't think so...

 

 I knew an IT guy from NY. had a DEC VAX in his basement. Came down to visit the guv'mint contractor I worked for. Boss sent me to his attys offices to work on their computers. He sent the VAX guy with me. He used quite inappropriate speech in front of all the ladies in the office. I was embarrassed.

 

We were also moving into new offices. And he convinced my boss that rj45 connectors would never catch on and were unreliable. I had to run 10 baseT coax through the building. Not a happy time in my life.

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