Crossover Capacitors and Crossovers In General

[Curious_George]

If we all lived in Russia, we would all be driving Lada's. How boring would that be? 

[Racer X]

But they have nice caps in Russia....

[jimjimbo]

58 minutes ago, Curious_George said:

Lately, I have had the urge to put "motor run" type caps in my universal networks and re-evaluate. I know this has be done before, but I'd like to try it. Currently, I have Dayton/Audyn in them now and to me they sound great. 

If you feel the urge to install some old original Klipsch "oil cans", let me know the values and if I have them I will test and then send them to you for the cost of shipping.

[ClaudeJ1]

15 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

If you feel the urge to install some old original Klipsch "oil cans", let me know the values and if I have them I will test and then send them to you for the cost of shipping.

Easier to add series resistance to a low ESR capacitor, perhaps?

[jimjimbo]

15 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Easier to add series resistance to a low ESR capacitor, perhaps?

Buzz killer

[Khornukopia]

1 hour ago, Curious_George said:

If we all lived in Russia, we would all be driving Lada's. How boring would that be? 

I would change my hub-CAPS.

[jimjimbo]

12 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

I would change my hub-CAPS.

But then, it's no longer a Lada.  How awful.

[Deang]

I was hoping this was the Captain's dedicated thread for measurements. We've already had a thousand threads like this one and they always end badly. I predict you'll all be banned by the end of the week.

[OO1]

 Chev  Chevette    ,now that was worse than a Lada , 

[captainbeefheart]

Wow what have I missed hahaha

 

Trying to get some things done but my back is just not cooperating, I'm taking a small break and having more coffee with you lads. I'm trying to get caught up on the convo but none of it makes much sense, were posts removed or something?

 

Are we not allowed to name part brands? I'm so confused right now

[captainbeefheart]

15 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

I was hoping this was the Captain's dedicated thread for measurements. We've already had a thousand threads like this one and they always end badly. I predict you'll all be banned by the end of the week.

 

If Nick doesn't mind me posting the results in here that would be okay with me. I was poking around last night for some other 2uF caps to use for the testing process. Test the networks with the approved Tecate caps then swap to another type of dielectric but I guess any physically different capacitor will be fine to add to the testing results.

 

I was trying to get more done on Shakey's amp but even though my work bench is good height for bench work I still have to lean over a tad to do my soldering and work and it's just not fun right now. Don't want to get sloppy because of pain and rushing the job ya know.

 

 

[Deang]

You didn't miss anything.

 

The other thread ended with Roy saying to start a new thread to discuss your desire to do measurements - I thought this was it. The last thing this place needs is another opinion based thread that always degenerates into nonsense. I'm more interested in "why" people are hearing what they're hearing with these modification/changes. We all know people have preferences, but sharing those isn't very useful at this point.

 

@captainbeefheart You will need an aftermarket autotransformer at some point. Just PM me when you'd like for me to ship it.

[Curious_George]

1 minute ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

If Nick doesn't mind me posting the results in here that would be okay with me. I was poking around last night for some other 2uF caps to use for the testing process. Test the networks with the approved Tecate caps then swap to another type of dielectric but I guess any physically different capacitor will be fine to add to the testing results.

 

I was trying to get more done on Shakey's amp but even though my work bench is good height for bench work I still have to lean over a tad to do my soldering and work and it's just not fun right now. Don't want to get sloppy because of pain and rushing the job ya know.

 

 

Post way Cappy. Chief said make a new thread, so here it is. 

[Curious_George]

10 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

You didn't miss anything.

 

The other thread ended with Roy saying to start a new thread to discuss your desire to do measurements - I thought this was it. The last thing this place needs is another opinion based thread that always degenerates into nonsense. I'm more interested in "why" people are hearing what they're hearing with these modification/changes. We all know people have preferences, but sharing those isn't very useful at this point.

 

@captainbeefheart You will need an aftermarket autotransformer at some point. Just PM me when you like for me to ship it.

I believe a lot of "it" (what we hear or don't hear) has a lot to do with what the Captain has been saying all along... the psychologial aspect of it. Our brain is amazing in what it can do, but it is also amazing at what it can make us feel either through visual, auditory, smell and touch stimulation.

[billybob]

Yes unless there is a reversal from the *Chief, certain part brands are out, last I read.

May could use XYZ as unique identifiers. And PM them as the list expands.

Sure it can be sorted albeit the alternative, as it exists so far today.

Unless the alternative attracts. Abit of a tightrope ride.

[captainbeefheart]

10 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

I'm more interested in "why" people are hearing what they're hearing with these modification/changes.

 

This is all I'm interested in.  If it's audible it's measurable we just need to know what to measure and how to interpret it. I usually find there is a logical explanation for things and like to add it into my "matrix" as you so eloquently stated it.

 

13 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

You will need an aftermarket autotransformer at some point. Just PM me when you'd like for me to ship it.

 

You piqued my interest. Do they have an inherent issue I don't know about? Good to know where I can find them and I thank you kind sir.

 

15 minutes ago, Curious_George said:

Post way Cappy. Chief said make a new thread, so here it is. 

 

Excellent!  

 

 

[tigerwoodKhorns]

17 hours ago, Curious_George said:

My point to all this is that I can see Klipsch's and Roy's point of view about changing parts. The loud speaker is designed as a system and any change could affect it in a negative manner. 

 

 

 

I think that it is really very simple.  Roy designed a speaker a certain way.  When people make changes they will change the sound, and guess who gets blamed when they make them worse?  'Klipsch speakers suck, blah blah blah' when it wasn't even what they did.  ALK had the same issue.  He said that people were building his universals with lesser parts and then blaming him.  I am not saying that people do not make them better, but this is the same as when Klipsch licensed their designs in the early years and it had to come to an end.

 

I see this in my profession where people who have no knowledge or skill at all have taken my work and made a huge mess of it by 'just making a few changes'.  I have emailed others to tell them that this is not my work as I don't want the stink attached to my name. 

 

So I fully appreciate Roy's POV.  At the same time I have never used Klipsch approved caps so I 'assume the risk' when I redo crossovers.  I like modding in all of my hobbies. 

 

 

 

 

[Curious_George]

2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

If you feel the urge to install some old original Klipsch "oil cans", let me know the values and if I have them I will test and then send them to you for the cost of shipping.

Thank you for the offer. Is there a reason you have a stash of them? Do you use them yourself or are they just left-over from upgrades?

[captainbeefheart]

4 minutes ago, billybob said:

Yes unless there is a reversal from the *Chief, part brands are out, last I read.

May could use XYZ as unique identifiers. And PM them as the list expands.

 

I won't buck the rules but just curious to why we can't name parts. Klipsch doesn't make capacitors so I don't see why they would worry about mentioning brands.

 

Guys like to tinker and the discussion of swapping around parts with the heritage line brings a lot of attention to the name Klipsch. If they start policing this I don't see it as in their best interest since the buzz around the speakers won't be as large. I think that's part of the reason they are so popular, the large boards and layout make it easy for a novice to tweak the networks. I don't think this paints Klipsch as deficient in any way, I mean look at all the car people that like to make their car "theirs" by tweaking them but it makes their customers into loyalists. Take that away and people feel like they are in a police state which nobody likes.

 

I'm not complaining, I'll adhere to the rules but I'm just trying put myself in their shoes and see why this is an issue.

[Deang]

2 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

I won't buck the rules but just curious to why we can't name parts.

 

I can't speak for Roy but I don't think he would care about that. What drives him nuts is the claims without the evidence, and the ignorance. Yes, it's been a rough month for me.

 

All of the new builds are done using aftermarket autotransformers. They are wound by the same company but are different than the originals. Inductance between taps is quite different. @mboxler has done quite a bit with this but it's difficult to decipher what the effect might be.

 

Someone I have a high degree of respect for sent me this on the topic:

 

"Differences in the reactance at both ends of the impedance modulus are likely but are they significant? The 13uF cap in the circuit will determine the impedance response in the LF side of the modulus, it dominates totally. The high end of the response is determined by the mutual inductance of the windings but even here, I'd be surprised if there were any significant differences to the second decimal."