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Heritage speakers and soundstage depth


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8 hours ago, jjptkd said:

they're currently about 12 inches off the back wall but about 6 feet from either side wall. I get plenty of bass and good depth. 

 

3 hours ago, Islander said:

When it comes to walls, can we standardize what we call them?  That way, at least one point of confusion will be eliminated or at least greatly reduced.

 

What I suggest is this:  the wall behind the Front speakers is the front wall.

 

The wall behind the Rear/Back speakers is the rear/back wall.

 

 Sorry for the confusion you are correct of course I meant back of the speaker to the front wall I edited my original post

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Yes, agreed.  The front wall is the wall you see when facing front, where the front speakers are, etc., etc.

 

A few reviewers still say it counter-rationally.

 

At the moment, the way my room is set up now, I get depth.

 

  • It would be interesting if we found depth increasing if we put 2' by 4' absorbers where a yardstick (or a longer stick) touches the side wall if placed flat on the midrange part of the speaker, as Chris A advised in his article on corner horn acoustics. image.png.e7a5b21d328f744abb9701e480ef3fe5.png
  • The depth changes with the recording.
  • I have a third, "center" channel (Belle Klipsch) buried in the front wall, about 1/16 of an inch behind where it would be if it was perfectly flush mounted. It is used with movies and with music, depending on the miking pattern used when  they recorded it, and other aspects of the recording technique, determined by ear.  "Rightness" prevails.
  • Here we go again, " ... 'mike' and 'miking' are the grammatically preferred ways to describe your microphone setup." https://audiomav.com/micing-or-miking-how-to-describe-your-microphone-setup/  It would be interesting to see what a cross section of editors woud say about this -- you know, the ones who insist you can't say "a myriad of variables," but must say, "myriad variables."

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

When I had Forte IIIs I tried them well into the room but didn’t care for that. But at the time I didn’t have subs. I have my LS IIs a little more than two feet from the front wall and I get decent SS depth. Stereo subs sit behind the speakers.

 

When I was integrating my sub with the La Scalas, I was testing for smoothest bass response, with the fewest peaks and dips.  Almost touching the front wall was okay, and moving them out was a bit better, but the improvement stopped at about the 6 inch/15 cm point.  Beyond that, floor space was lost, and no sound quality was gained.  Accordingly, I set my La Scala IIs (JubScala IIs, actually) 5 inches/13 cm from the wall, measured from the corner of the speaker that’s closest to the front wall.  

 

As for the side walls, I have a baseboard heater on one side, which means the speaker has to be at least about 1 foot/30 cm away, and open space on the other side, so no room gain there.

 

The subwoofers are inboard of the Main Left and Right speakers, which works acoustically as well as practically and aesthetically.  That’s lucky.  If I’d had to place the subs in some odd locations to get even-sounding bass, it would have been inconvenient.  Your setup, with the subs behind the Main speakers, should work out well, too.  You get good depth, but do you ever notice a sensation of height?  I only notice it on some recordings, but it really adds to the “you are there” feeling when it happens.

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5 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Those are some monstrous speaker cables!  Could you tell us a little bit about them?


These are Foilflex cables. Relatively unknown outside Australia. I simply fell in love with these. These cables are extrmely dynamic and “psychedelic” in the sense that these are really good at doing the 3D thing. Not overly cheap but not into crazy price range territory either. Their intervonnects are also excellent. They also manufacture the Curious Cable range of USB and ethernet cables. 

 

Foilflex web site

 

Curious Cable web site

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9 hours ago, Painful Reality said:

I recently had a change over and got a Pass Labs INT60 and a pair of Sonus Faber Electa Amator III. And this setup is mindblowing. The smaller size of the Sonus Faber integrates better in the room.

 

350C81CE-3FD7-4B8E-926C-068CFBDF96BC.jpeg

 

NIce, I have always wanted to try a pair of Sonus Farber. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

NIce, I have always wanted to try a pair of Sonus Farber. 

 

 

 


I love the Electa Amator III. They are not a neutral speaker though so I’d say it’s probably not every one’s cup of tea. I ended up preferring these over the Guarneri Tradition.

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4 hours ago, Islander said:

That’s good.  Thanks. The thing is, I keep seeing references to the “back” wall, which seems to be the wall in back of (an odd way of saying “behind”) the front speakers.  Sometimes it really makes you wonder where the speakers are, or what kind of bizarre room they’re in.

 

The reference (that I don't use) is from the standpoint of the performers on a stage, the wall behind them.

As others have posted, the wall in front of the listener(s) and behind the speakers = front wall is less confusing.

Edited by 82 Cornwalls
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10 hours ago, Painful Reality said:


These are Foilflex cables. Relatively unknown outside Australia. I simply fell in love with these. These cables are extrmely dynamic and “psychedelic” in the sense that these are really good at doing the 3D thing. Not overly cheap but not into crazy price range territory either. Their intervonnects are also excellent. They also manufacture the Curious Cable range of USB and ethernet cables. 

 

Foilflex web site

 

Curious Cable web site


Tread lightly around here with that kind of talk…….😉

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I consider quality of imaging and especially depth of imaging to be a critical measurement of how well I’ve integrated my system with the room.

 

This is my latest setup with the La Scala AL5 ME and KPT-1502-HLS prototype sub. 

 

I’ve audibly identified and mapped the areas of the room(which is almost square and has real modal strength challenges) where I could minimize the La Scala AL5 coupling with the (Front Wall to Back Wall problem modes in the 20Hz to 200Hz region) and (Left Wall to Right Wall problem modes also in the 20Hz to 200Hz region) while also listening for the best imaging in width and depth along with the loudspeakers totally disappearing as a sound source (unless the recording mix itself locates an image at the loudspeaker itself). Loudspeaker movements as little as 6” is critical for optimizing my setup and IMHO no room treatments or electronic equalization can fully substitute or replace this step in system/room optimization..!!!

 

miketn

 

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I consider quality of imaging and especially depth of imaging to be a critical measurement of how well I’ve integrated my system with the room.

 

This is my latest setup with the La Scala AL5 ME and KPT-1502-HLS prototype sub. 

 

I’ve audibly identified and mapped the areas of the room(which is almost square and has real modal strength challenges) where I could minimize the La Scala AL5 coupling with the (Front Wall to Back Wall problem modes in the 20Hz to 200Hz region) and (Left Wall to Right Wall problem modes also in the 20Hz to 200Hz region) while also listening for the best imaging in width and depth along with the loudspeakers totally disappearing as a sound source (unless the recording mix itself locates an image at the loudspeaker itself). Loudspeaker movements as little as 6” is critical for optimizing my setup and IMHO no room treatments or electronic equalization can fully substitute or replace this step in system/room optimization..!!!

 


Nice room! I totally agree with your assessment of speaker placement being the first in line for room acoustic. Sadly it’s also the one we have the less flexibility. For a typical room size that is. You have zero constraints on that front in your room!

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11 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Mikeb is what I call a serious lover of music with his personal dedicated room to listen in. I think I can safely use the word audiophile to describe him. 

 

Well I believe we all love music in different ways but I have been fascinated with its reproduction and this has lead to my several decades long search for  knowledge and understanding in many fields (especially room acoustics) to achieve and maximize all aspects that lead to accurate reproduction.

 

The journey has been filled with very fascinating, enlightening and frustrating experiences that keeps me engaged and learning to this day..!!!

 

My current room/system is just the latest manifestation of my research and efforts at understanding an unbelievably complex multi-dimensional process.

 

miketn 🙂

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4 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

Well I believe we all love music in different ways but I have been fascinated with its reproduction and this has lead to my several decades long search for  knowledge and understanding in many fields (especially room acoustics) to achieve and maximize all aspects that lead to accurate reproduction.

 

The journey has been filled with very fascinating, enlightening and frustrating experiences that keeps me engaged and learning to this day..!!!

 

My current room/system is just the latest manifestation of my research and efforts at understanding an unbelievably complex multi-dimensional process.

 

miketn 🙂


What are the cylinders on the room walls? Some kind of absorbers/diffusers? Can you give more details? It looks like someting I could integrate in my living room.

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15 hours ago, Painful Reality said:


What are the cylinders on the room walls? Some kind of absorbers/diffusers? Can you give more details? It looks like someting I could integrate in my living room.

 

They are ASC Tube Traps from Acoustical Science Corporation and yes they are tunable absorbers/diffusers which I find them to be a powerful and indispensable tool for optimizing the listening experience.

 

I started a thread about 1 year ago with my experimentations with variations on using the QSF (Quick Sound Field) methods used by recording and mastering engineers in my listening room and I’ve learned much since that time and I hope to add updates when time allows.

 

I’ve provided many informational links in the thread that you and others might find interesting.

 

miketn

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

They are ASC Tube Traps from Acoustical Science Corporation and yes they are tunable absorbers/diffusers which I find them to be a powerful and indispensable tool for optimizing the listening experience.

 

I started a thread about 1 year ago with my experimentations with variations on using the QSF (Quick Sound Field) methods used by recording and mastering engineers in my listening room and I’ve learned much since that time and I hope to add updates when time allows.

 

I’ve provided many informational links in the thread that you and others might find interesting.

 

miketn

 

 

 

Thanks! 
 

I much appreciate the info! I’ll check that out.

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Mike,

 

The room is looking great, and reminds me of a 2C3D room (2 channel 3 dimensional sound), with TubeTraps distributed fairly evenly along the walls. I see you've moved the skyline diffusers off the front wall and on to the overhead. How would you describe their sound when on the front wall vs. the overhead? 

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