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Type AA's...


svberger

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My journey continues. Have a pair of '77 La Scala's that came with the original metal can caps on the AA's. Liked the sound as is and resisted refreshing them. Then I gave in, bought some new Type A crossovers with Sonicaps from the company  who shall not be named(went with A's because I disconnected the zener diodes and so figured no reason to get the AA's). Had them in for several months, no issues, liked them just fine. Not much difference after they seemingly broke in some. I also decided in that time that when @deangwas up and running I would order some new, Klipsch approved crossovers from him.

 

Last night I was bored, so threw in the old crossovers again, and man if they don't sound really good. I figured they would be a little duller then the new one's, but they're not. All the detail and high end is still intact, but there is a nice warmer overall presentation that seemingly was missing with the newer X/O's. Probably just in my mind, and probably my 65 year old ears doing their thing. But I like what I'm hearing, and think I'll leave these in there. At least until I'm able to get the approved variety's in there. 

 

Over and out.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Yes, definitely, as long as they go along with it and don't leak the oil. Mine have unfortunately leaked.

Yeah leaks aren't good. One of the nice things about the LS's is that it's easy to keep an eye on that.

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Film capacitors last much longer than one is lead to believe on forums. All I am going to say on the subject before I am pounced on by some members here. 🙂 The reason I can say this is my experience from working on electronic equipment from the 70's and older when most if not all the capacitors are still working as they should and really do not need replacing. I do restore some of them replacing all the electrolytic's and test each one of them just for reference and most still test within specs. That is electrolytic capacitors which most have a life expectancy of 15 years. At least that is what is said in the data sheets. When an electrolytic fails it is usually because it is in a hot environment. Heat is what causes a capacitor to fail. At least from my experience. Film caps rarely fail or need replacing except in really old equipment. We are talking 50's and earlier. Just my experience.

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I worked on these in 2005. That was almost 20 years ago. You don't know whether they're leaking or not unless you lift them from the board. The oil pools under the caps. Sometimes the windings on the autoformer are loose and can be moved up and down the core. You also don't know the true condition unless you have an ESR meter that can measure them in circuit. It was after I did this pair that I quit restoring them.

 

 

MVC-006S.JPG

1978.JPG

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Just one more thought on this subject. Any time you replace a cap in the audio circuit with a different brand, if your hearing is good enough, you will notice a difference in the sound. Who can say if you will like it. I am really curious of the sound the engineers at Klipsch came up with sounding best for the money in their approved capacitors. Real tempting to buy some for my AA's myself. Anyone knows the cost of the Klipsch caps for AA's?

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1 minute ago, deang said:

I worked on these in 2005. That was almost 20 years ago. You don't know whether they're leaking or not unless you lift them from the board. The oil pools under the caps. Sometimes the windings on the autoformer are loose and can be moved up and down the core. You also don't know the true condition unless you have an ESR meter that can measure them in circuit. It was after I did this pair that I quit restoring them.

 

 

MVC-006S.JPG

1978.JPG

Will not hurt to replace caps, for sure, even if your caps are OK. But I would keep those old caps if they are not leaking just because. 

Dean has been building and selling crossovers on this forum for more years than I can remember. I think Roy grandfathered him in but the name of the other sellers are out on this forum. 🙂  Dean should be supported on this forum and lets all keep him occupied with our crossover work. No doubt he is honest and does good work. You may love the new Klipsch sound the approved capacitors deliver. After all it is the sound of the new guard at Klipsch. Never know till you try. 

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1 hour ago, deang said:

I worked on these in 2005. That was almost 20 years ago. You don't know whether they're leaking or not unless you lift them from the board. The oil pools under the caps. Sometimes the windings on the autoformer are loose and can be moved up and down the core. You also don't know the true condition unless you have an ESR meter that can measure them in circuit. It was after I did this pair that I quit restoring them.

 

 

MVC-006S.JPG

1978.JPG

My cans look fine, but I have not looked under them and don't plan to. Even though I had no issues audibly with the original AA's, I broke down and bought the refreshed A's because, well, I wanted to see what a  majority here and on other forums strongly urge for "better" sound. Well, I did, and they do sound good, but not better. Different, a bit , perhaps. It is for that same reason that I'm going to order your X/O rebuilds. If it gets me closer to what my LS's sounded like off the assembly line in '77(and I realize that other factors come into play which makes it impossible to have them sound exactly like '77 new) great. I also realize that ultimately, I may still prefer the old, decrepit cans. But at least I'll have some idea as to the difference. It's all about the journey and the experience.

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2 hours ago, svberger said:

My cans look fine, but I have not looked under them and don't plan to. Even though I had no issues audibly with the original AA's, I broke down and bought the refreshed A's because, well, I wanted to see what a  majority here and on other forums strongly urge for "better" sound. Well, I did, and they do sound good, but not better. Different, a bit , perhaps. It is for that same reason that I'm going to order your X/O rebuilds. If it gets me closer to what my LS's sounded like off the assembly line in '77(and I realize that other factors come into play which makes it impossible to have them sound exactly like '77 new) great. I also realize that ultimately, I may still prefer the old, decrepit cans. But at least I'll have some idea as to the difference. It's all about the journey and the experience.

 

I am completely with you on this point, svberger. There is only one objection. As soon as you see the slightest liquid it is dangerous for your health. The old caps contain PCBs which was used for cooling. @deang will know if the old Aerovox caps Klipsch used are affected. PCB is extremely highly toxic and it spreads in the air when you see droplets of it.

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18 minutes ago, KT88 said:

 

I am completely with you on this point, svberger. There is only one objection. As soon as you see the slightest liquid it is dangerous for your health. The old caps contain PCBs which was used for cooling. @deang will know if the old Aerovox caps Klipsch used are affected. PCB is extremely highly toxic and it spreads in the air when you see droplets of it.

Dying for good sound😏

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3 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Anyone knows the cost of the Klipsch caps for AA's

I ordered some from JEM they are only a little over 100.00 with shipping. I am going to see if I can hear a difference with these 65 old ears.

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1 minute ago, babadono said:

@svbergerput type A in one and AA in the other? Listen in mono. Which one do you like mo betta? Install the one you like better in both, DONE. Just an idea.

 Not necessary.  I've gotten to know each pretty well at this point, and after listening to the C****s A's for a couple months straight, it was pretty easy for me to hear the differences between the 2 when I stuck the original AA's back. I could easily live with either because they're really quite similar. I think the choice of amps makes a much more significant difference then the X/O. The difference between a McIntosh MC225 and McIntosh MC30's was more obvious to my ears.

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11 minutes ago, babadono said:

@svbergerput type A in one and AA in the other? Listen in mono. Which one do you like mo betta? Install the one you like better in both, DONE. Just an idea.

 

I have a combined xover from Bob from 2009. I can switch from A to AA. I have only changed the capacitors for ones that are closer to the original sound. The type A circuit can sound good e.g. with a 300B SET, but in the long run I much prefer the type AA. Especially as I am no longer a SET fan. These SET amps can charm in the mids but I prefer a more powerful type of amp, push pull and at least 20 watts to enjoy the full spectrum of music and its dynamics. And for that I like the AA circuit much more.
By the way, listening to mono can set certain aspects in scene in a very revealing way. But in stereo you hear better which xover type lets you experience the room and the imaging better.

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