Do Heresy IIIs sound a bit hollow when knocked?

[Weltfaul]

Hello,

I now have my second pair of Heresy IIIs - I stupidly sold the first one - bought last year, Spring 2021. Since I bought them I have a weird feeling that this second set, when knocking on top or sides, sounds more 'hollow' than the first pair, which was scarcely two years older. Also, the bass in some recordings seems a little less controlled and a little 'boomy'. It could be the amp - was a PrimaLuna EVO 100 and now is a TEAC A-H500i - but the feeling of a certain 'emptiness' from the sealed boxes is still present.

Does anybody know if there is any absorbent inside? I now keep my IIIs on their slanted bases.

Thanks for opinions, suggestions or plain reassurances.

Max 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Weltfaul
Correction

[Schu]

they are exactly the same.... if your first pair were indeed Hiii's

[YK Thom]

Removed my post, misread and though you now had the IVs.

[OO1]

 it aint the speakers or all the Heresy Speakers and we're talking  100,000 minimum would sound hollow , and the Heresy is definitely the most prolific   klipsch Speaker ever made .

[Peter P.]

It's the recordings.

[Zen Traveler]

Interesting diagnosis from the first 3 responses...

[Weltfaul]

9 hours ago, Schu said:

they are exactly the same.... if your first pair were indeed Hiii's

Yes they are, and yes they were.
Thanks.

[Weltfaul]

7 hours ago, YK Thom said:

Removed my post, misread and though you now had the IVs.

Thanks anyway.
I'm still asking somebody if the Heresy IIIs have damping stuff inside. I have not, and will never, open my pair.
M.

[Weltfaul]

5 hours ago, Peter P. said:

It's the recordings.

Thanks. The recordings may surely account for some resonating bass, but I hardly think that they may be the culprit of some hollow sounding knocks..
Speaking of recordings, they are absurdly variable in quality; also, keeping the speakers close to the ground doesn't sometimes help with transparency and clarity. I don't remember having ever heard boomy bass with the PrimaLuna, so I might as well check the TEAC's true capacities.
M.

[Tom05]

Boomy bass should not be  an issue  with Heresy .( unless their not working properly) Heresy is actually sort  of an anti boom speaker ,  they’re  known for their very clean tight bass , that rolls off a bit early 🤓

[Weltfaul]

Hi,
thanks. I sort of thought as much, basing on my previous experience - the Pass, the PL. It's probably something with the TEAC amp. I'm still amazed at how someone claims that the H3s' woofer is ok with a 5W tube amp, and others that it takes lots of solid state watts... I guess in the end it's all down to getting lucky with the right amp and to personal preferences, letting objective science alone..
🤫

M

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, Weltfaul said:

Hi,
thanks. I sort of thought as much, basing on my previous experience - the Pass, the PL. It's probably something with the TEAC amp. I'm still amazed at how someone claims that the H3s' woofer is ok with a 5W tube amp, and others that it takes lots of solid state watts... I guess in the end it's all down to getting lucky with the right amp and to personal preferences, letting objective science alone..
🤫

M

 

Regarding your question about insulation in the cabinet, I don't know specifically about the H3, but the H2 did have some foam in an upside down u shape.

 

Regarding power, the way that amps are measured is misleading.  Typically the power is measured with a 1khz signal and a static 8-ohm load.  This obviously doesn't represent reality because music has a much broader bandwidth, speakers are a rather complex load with multiple different drivers and crossovers, and the higher frequencies are easier to reproduce than lower frequencies (i.e. the bass spectrum is more difficult to reproduce and a 1khz signal is simple to reproduce).  Amps sound different because their ability to drive complex loads varies based on the transformers, transistors, capacitors, and circuit design used.

[Joe Carter]

I can’t comment on the Heresy III but I can say the my IV’s do sound a bit hollow when I knock on them. They sound very solid when tapped on the lower lefthand side of the cabinet which is where I believe the crossover is. The only thing I would add is that I love the way they sound.

[OO1]

2 hours ago, Weltfaul said:

 I'm still amazed at how someone claims that the H3s' woofer is ok with a 5W tube amp, and others that it takes lots of solid state watts. 

 easy solution is to buy both tube and SS amps , who said , you cant have both .

[Weltfaul]

@jcn3

Thanks, this possibly answers my question about damping material. As for power, I am aware of the infinite variety of amp responses to drivers and crossovers.. I have somehow given up finding the ideal pairing; having tried a PrimaLuna already with good results, I may end up with one again.

 

@Joe Carter,
I think that my 3s' crossover is a dual-layered PCB fixed to the inside of the binding posts' pit. Suffice it for me that everyone else's Heresys behave more or less like mine..

@001,

Who said I can't..?
🙂

M.

 

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, Weltfaul said:

@jcn3

Thanks, this possibly answers my question about damping material. As for power, I am aware of the infinite variety of amp responses to drivers and crossovers.. I have somehow given up finding the ideal pairing; having tried a PrimaLuna already with good results, I may end up with one again.

 

@Joe Carter,
I think that my 3s' crossover is a dual-layered PCB fixed to the inside of the binding posts' pit. Suffice it for me that everyone else's Heresys behave more or less like mine..

@001,

Who said I can't..?
🙂

M.

 

 

it is weird that you thought the cabinets of two h3s sounded different when you rap on them.  all h3s used mdf cabinets -- i would be surprised if there was any difference in the cabinets between the two.  i would also doubt there was any difference in the insulation that was used (if any was used at all) in the two.  if you ever have a chance, rap on some h1s -- they definitely sound "hollow"!

 

the h2s and h3s both had their crossovers on the back of the binding post cups.  the h1 and the h4 both have theirs mounted on the sides of the speakers.

 

i have found that with my heresys the sound of the bass is the biggest difference between various amps but i haven't experienced boomy.

 

i look forward to hear what you learn as you investigate further.

[Peter P.]

8 hours ago, jcn3 said:

 

Regarding your question about insulation in the cabinet, I don't know specifically about the H3, but the H2 did have some foam in an upside down u shape.

 

Regarding power, the way that amps are measured is misleading.  Typically the power is measured with a 1khz signal and a static 8-ohm load.  This obviously doesn't represent reality because music has a much broader bandwidth, speakers are a rather complex load with multiple different drivers and crossovers, and the higher frequencies are easier to reproduce than lower frequencies (i.e. the bass spectrum is more difficult to reproduce and a 1khz signal is simple to reproduce).  Amps sound different because their ability to drive complex loads varies based on the transformers, transistors, capacitors, and circuit design used.

Most amps are specified as X watts from A-B Hz into C ohms at D distortion. Sounds like a lot of algebra, but the point is most amps specify a frequency range and it's usually 20-20k, and it's very easy to build an amp that's flat across the hearing spectrum. If a company specs at only 1kHz input tone, run away with your wallet.

[Weltfaul]

@jcn3

I am not sure that the two cabinets sounded different; it would have been a very long shot to assume I had aural memory of one noise of months and months before. Let's say that I knocked on the second pair, I had a certain feeling of hollowness and wondered if the first pair also sounded that way - since I am sure I had knocked on them too. But I also think that having bought a second pair because I had sold the first one, and feeling a little silly about it, I had more expectations from this new purchase, and was more ill at ease about any possible flaw in the speakers...

When I had my first pair and a PrimaLuna EVO 100, which is rated at 42 watts/8ohm, a guy came by to hear them, bringing some CDs along; he played loud electronic music and the Heresys produced deep, sonorous and non resonating bass; I suspect that my otherwise honest TEAC amp is not controlling the 12" woofer as it should.

BTW, has anybody seen a graph for the Heresy IIIs' impedance anywhere? The only review discussing their impedance is that by Dick Olsher on The Absolute Sound, which essentially says that they can be considered 8 Ohm speakers. I don't care much about it safe that tube amps must be chosen considering the impedance/phase pattern of the speakers too.

Thanks to all
M.

[jcn3]

4 hours ago, Weltfaul said:

@jcn3

I am not sure that the two cabinets sounded different; it would have been a very long shot to assume I had aural memory of one noise of months and months before. Let's say that I knocked on the second pair, I had a certain feeling of hollowness and wondered if the first pair also sounded that way - since I am sure I had knocked on them too. But I also think that having bought a second pair because I had sold the first one, and feeling a little silly about it, I had more expectations from this new purchase, and was more ill at ease about any possible flaw in the speakers...

When I had my first pair and a PrimaLuna EVO 100, which is rated at 42 watts/8ohm, a guy came by to hear them, bringing some CDs along; he played loud electronic music and the Heresys produced deep, sonorous and non resonating bass; I suspect that my otherwise honest TEAC amp is not controlling the 12" woofer as it should.

BTW, has anybody seen a graph for the Heresy IIIs' impedance anywhere? The only review discussing their impedance is that by Dick Olsher on The Absolute Sound, which essentially says that they can be considered 8 Ohm speakers. I don't care much about it safe that tube amps must be chosen considering the impedance/phase pattern of the speakers too.

Thanks to all
M.

 

I haven't seen an impedance curve for H3s specifically.  Although most Heritage speakers are 8 ohm speakers, as I recall, they do tend to drop to around 4 ohms in the 100-150hz range.  There are exceptions such as my H1s that don't drop below about 10 ohms (see below).

 

There is an older thread that is a "library" of impedance curves below.  You'll notice the general theme for Heritage impedance curves.

 

Here is what ErinH measured on the H4 (found over at ASR):

 

 

Forte III from Stereophile:

 

 

And my Heresy 1 (from this site):

 

[Weltfaul]

Thanks,

if my H3s had an impedance pattern as the 1s, they would be a great match with valve amps. Nothing below 10 Ohms is as rare today as a loudness control...