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Could use advice on choosing a pair of mains (new Forte IVs vs. used La Scalas, or Klipschorn) and an amplifier. Use for both streaming music and in a 5.1.4 system.


indocti discant

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Dunno what it is about Klipsch - but I've been attached to them for a long time now. Bought a pair of RP280FAs a couple of years and love them. But about a year or so ago discovered the heritage line and have been yearning to upgrade them. 

Our space is an odd one - it's a studio apartment that has the place set up for home theater and listening to music (Amazon HD music streamed through Denon HEOS). I also have a record player / may get another one in the future. 

Room is maybe 25 feet deep, and we sit about 10 feet away from the speakers right now. 

I've been non stop thinking about which to get and after getting over wanting to buy used speakers - settled on the Forte IVs based on SteveHuff's review. I went through the whole - Yeah I can do the Klipschorns and then realizing that we don't exactly have 2 corners in which to place them, to then thinking oh the La Scalas - to realizing that they might be too big, to the Cornwalls and then even down to the Heresys. 

 

Anyhow, throughout all of this I've still been randomly checking classifieds and a pair of La Scalas have popped up. 1978 Birch - all original - seemingly owned by a woodworker with some extra layers and a guard put on them. My concern with something that old is that I'm not exactly very handy when it comes to doing any upgrades etc and have no sense if such an old speaker would need refurbishment work. 


I also found a pair of Klipschorns with recently replaced woofers - that I'm also thinking about. 

So that sort of brings me to one of my first set of questions - just what should I be concerned about, look at when it comes to anything vintage like that? And has the sound changed considerably to the current ones (which based on everything I've read - it has?). Is there a place I should go to to read up about all of this? 
B

Otherwise, is going with the Forte IVs a better option - brand new - nothing to really worry about for a while yadda yadda?

Finally - if I am to upgrade my receiver (which I likely will) is something like a Denon 6700h or similar Marantz the appropriate choice? I do want to have height front and rear - currently I only have a 5.1.2 system. 

 

Or should I keep my existing Denon for home theater viewing and get a dedicated amp for listening to music? And if so what would be a good one that can play streaming music? 

 

Apologies for what is probably a whole host of questions - trying to be as clear while also being concise. 

Thank you and I look forward to being here :)

 

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You live in a STUDIO apartment. That means space is at a premium, and you HAVE to consider the amount of space your speakers will consume.

 

It's a practical consideration, and a necessary one.

 

I don't know the square footage of your apartment, or its layout, but I assume your listening space is small, and big speakers either consume a lot of space or aesthetically overwhelm the space.

 

That's why tower speakers (including Klipsch) have come to the fore in the market; a small footprint with full-range sound.

 

With that in mind, and your desire to have a pair of Heritage Series speakers, I advocate you find a pair of Heresy's and add a compact subwoofer such as the SVS 1000 series. The previously suggested Forte's would be an option but here again they might overwhelm the room size-wise.

 

And remember; you're living in an apartment so you'll likely move at some point, perhaps more than once. Moving large speakers, especially LaScalas or Klipschorns, will be a chore, and can result in damaged veneer. These speakers are probably best left for longer term ownership.

 

Oh; and don't forget your neighbors! You'll likely piss them off if you start cranking a pair of Heritage Series Klipsch's! Maybe just skip your ideas and get a pair of headphones...!

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I've been moving LaScalas since 1979.  Just needed to rent a furniture hand truck, until I finally bought one.

 

Nobody's seen your layout.....but in my opinion, Khorns are one of the most space efficient speakers made since they use what is typically wasted corner space.  If you have empty corners, they could be your best utilization of your space instead of speakers that might need to be moved out from the wall a bit.

 

Neighbors?  Bah....  if you respect the volume knob they won't even know they exist.  I had a pair of Jubilee's and two Danley DTS 10's in an apartment.  Nobody had a clue what was in there and never a single complaint.

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You have many (and good) questions. I also have a question. How do you experience the Forte IV, what is your impression? Is there a particular point of displeasure that you are already thinking about an exchange so quickly?
Not that the journey of discovery is not a great thing, on the contrary, it is part of our beautiful hobby. But to be honest...your desire to switch seems so very fast to me, before you could maybe really get used to the Klipsch Forte sound?
And depending on what you're going to share as a criticism or dissatisfaction with the Forte IV, it's better we know it to give a tip on where you should/could switch to.

 

In general to your other question - vintage vs new, on the level of reliability one can basically say that e.g. a Khorn or a LaScala play very reliably after 45 years. But one also has to say that maybe parts like diaphragms or leaky capacitors would have to be changed. But this is honestly not a big deal and not astronomically expensive, maybe all together 250 to 300 USD including K55V midrange diaphragms and Klipsch certified capacitors from JEM or deang. It's worth doing, even if you pay an extra technician.... BUT ONLY THEN if it is necessary (because it is not always necessary!).

It's also always good to get hold of a largely original box or one with evidence of replacements. You don't always know how many owners have made "individual" changes that may not all be in the good direction.

Now, a LaScala that is perhaps 10 years old can also be relatively cheap, and you don't have to replace anything there, it always depends on the individual case. But this forum is always helpful for that. There are no stupid questions.

 

Assuming a vintage Klipsch is now technically perfectly fine, your other question was what differentiates the sound then from the sound now...even if it's still the same model. It really depends on your preferences. The vintage sound is different, but I for example really like what I hear with my 1977 LaScala.

Maybe I can say that the old speakers sound a little less good very loud but very very good soft to medium loud. But "medium loud" with a horn is already quite loud :). A rule of thumb might also be that a vintage Klipsch sounds very good with all music that was around at the time, whether classical, jazz or rock and folk. But a new Klipsch Heritage can also do everything newer, from techno to electronic music. Maybe an old Heritage Klipsch with music recordings of its time sounds a bit more emotional? I don't know. Other forists can correct me, and finally you have to hear it yourself. 
Have fun and good luck on your journey :)

 

@Peter P.I've had the case where quite conventional speakers annoyed the neighbours more than a LaScala or even my Underground Jubilees. It was that the conventional speakers boomed more bass throughout the room, while the horn bass seemed to be more focused to my ears and less penetrating to the neighbours (at moderate volumes only, of course).

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As @PeterPmentioned above, I'm sure space is a premium in a studio apartment. But even more than that, are you not concerned about your neighbors? Are they on board with you blasting music from horn loaded speakers (and possibly a subwoofer)? If not, go for broke. I'd recommend lascalas + subs. If you piss them off, really piss them off.

 

I live in a two story house. My system is in a dedicated room on the first floor. When I'm really gettin' after it, things get pretty interesting in the kitchen above. Thank God my wife is such a good sport.

 

 

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Thanks all for the warm welcome. Was a bit nervous with the first post here and the word salad. I thoroughly appreciate the responses so far and apologize for being a bit vague with some stuff - didn't know where and how to get so specific. 

Some clarifications!

When I say studio apt - that defines the space. We don't live in it :) It's right beneath where we currently live and is part of our condo. We live in 4 level 2 unit condo building in SF. This is the lowest of the 4 levels. 
Pictures of the space here! https://imgur.com/a/3tz2xtJ 

The most revised layout is reflected this way https://imgur.com/jfEysWU (apologies for being lazy and not taking a photo right now) 

We also bought this place 3 years ago and don't see ourselves moving for a substantial amount of time. I will absolutely be using movers for bringing these in (if new) or then  when picking them up (if buying used). 


One really pleasant surprise we've had (since moving the HT system downstairs from our living room) was that these Klipschs (and even the surrounds) don't leak much noise upstairs! It's something we noticed even when upstairs - how the soundstage was somewhat of a bubble, really loud right where you want it and then drops off enough that it's not disturbing people. Granted - I don't know how much of that is because when I play music - I play it in Denon's pure direct mode, so it only does 2 channel - no sub output. 

But - the sound doesn't seem to be an issue. I was playing Telegraph Road yesterday and was measuring 89db on my phone and my wife who at the point was directly above me in her office - didn't say anything (and she is VERY quick to tell me to turn it down). 

While playing that, I did start to feel the limit of these and it's why I've been itching to move to something a lot more musically inclined as well as have way more headroom. 

Anyhow back to it... I'm also not sure if I want to spend $3k (both the La Scalas and the Khorns I've come across are priced at this) on something that I'll need to rely on someone else to repair (I'm really not adept at this - heck I took a woofer out of a SW and while I could undo the screws and all, unclip the wires, I've yet to put it back together and seeing the amp made me go - ut oh). So there is that bit. 

As for sound - the one thing I continuously read in reviews is that the modern Klipsch are not the Klipsch of old which is "bright" "fatiguing" etc etc. That's the other complication - I don't know if I have the luxury (or if I'm being lazy) to hear all this stuff. I live in SF and the closest heritage dealer is a 2ish hour roundtrip drive. However, all the reviews I read of the modern IV line is exactly what appeals to me (or maybe that is my bias?). I'm relying heavily on Stevehuff's review as they seem so detailed. 

Gonna ramble on...

Music - Listen to pretty much everything under the sun - except for maybe electronic and modern pop stuff. We're 37 and 40. My dad met Jimi and Pink Floyd and I'm heavily influenced by him and love music from that era. So loads of rock and rock influenced pop. She loves Wilco. We also like the Killers, Mumford and more recently Harry Styles. Jazz and classical also feature heavily:) So I'd say that our music spans well over a half century :). 


How they perform for a home theater - is honestly an afterthought (heck I'm using a Deftech C8080HD as a center, and AR11s as my rears). The only place where the home theater takes any preference is the Amplifier (want that 5.1.4 sound). 

Which brings me to the other really important and nagging question I have (and again I have very little knowledge on this space) is how to power these things. I'm only now learning about amps, pre-amps, DACs, integrated etc etc. All that matters to me is that I can digitally stream Amazon HD music (as that's my primary source) to these guys and I don't know if that means that I should get a dedicated streaming device that hooks to an amp that hooks to these? So would love help on that so that down the road I think about that as well (because at first they are likely to just get hooked to the Denon). 

anyhooo... I'll stop now and welcome feedback (including how I should post better on such stuff - I really don't want to go about making new threads about - hey what about this set or that set etc etc). 

 

cheers!

 


 

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6 minutes ago, indocti discant said:

Thanks all for the warm welcome. Was a bit nervous with the first post here and the word salad. I thoroughly appreciate the responses so far and apologize for being a bit vague with some stuff - didn't know where and how to get so specific. 

Some clarifications!

When I say studio apt - that defines the space. We don't live in it :) It's right beneath where we currently live and is part of our condo. We live in 4 level 2 unit condo building in SF. This is the lowest of the 4 levels. 
Pictures of the space here! https://imgur.com/a/3tz2xtJ 

The most revised layout is reflected this way https://imgur.com/jfEysWU (apologies for being lazy and not taking a photo right now) 

We also bought this place 3 years ago and don't see ourselves moving for a substantial amount of time. I will absolutely be using movers for bringing these in (if new) or then  when picking them up (if buying used). 


One really pleasant surprise we've had (since moving the HT system downstairs from our living room) was that these Klipschs (and even the surrounds) don't leak much noise upstairs! It's something we noticed even when upstairs - how the soundstage was somewhat of a bubble, really loud right where you want it and then drops off enough that it's not disturbing people. Granted - I don't know how much of that is because when I play music - I play it in Denon's pure direct mode, so it only does 2 channel - no sub output. 

But - the sound doesn't seem to be an issue. I was playing Telegraph Road yesterday and was measuring 89db on my phone and my wife who at the point was directly above me in her office - didn't say anything (and she is VERY quick to tell me to turn it down). 

While playing that, I did start to feel the limit of these and it's why I've been itching to move to something a lot more musically inclined as well as have way more headroom. 

Anyhow back to it... I'm also not sure if I want to spend $3k (both the La Scalas and the Khorns I've come across are priced at this) on something that I'll need to rely on someone else to repair (I'm really not adept at this - heck I took a woofer out of a SW and while I could undo the screws and all, unclip the wires, I've yet to put it back together and seeing the amp made me go - ut oh). So there is that bit. 

As for sound - the one thing I continuously read in reviews is that the modern Klipsch are not the Klipsch of old which is "bright" "fatiguing" etc etc. That's the other complication - I don't know if I have the luxury (or if I'm being lazy) to hear all this stuff. I live in SF and the closest heritage dealer is a 2ish hour roundtrip drive. However, all the reviews I read of the modern IV line is exactly what appeals to me (or maybe that is my bias?). I'm relying heavily on Stevehuff's review as they seem so detailed. 

Gonna ramble on...

Music - Listen to pretty much everything under the sun - except for maybe electronic and modern pop stuff. We're 37 and 40. My dad met Jimi and Pink Floyd and I'm heavily influenced by him and love music from that era. So loads of rock and rock influenced pop. She loves Wilco. We also like the Killers, Mumford and more recently Harry Styles. Jazz and classical also feature heavily:) So I'd say that our music spans well over a half century :). 


How they perform for a home theater - is honestly an afterthought (heck I'm using a Deftech C8080HD as a center, and AR11s as my rears). The only place where the home theater takes any preference is the Amplifier (want that 5.1.4 sound). 

Which brings me to the other really important and nagging question I have (and again I have very little knowledge on this space) is how to power these things. I'm only now learning about amps, pre-amps, DACs, integrated etc etc. All that matters to me is that I can digitally stream Amazon HD music (as that's my primary source) to these guys and I don't know if that means that I should get a dedicated streaming device that hooks to an amp that hooks to these? So would love help on that so that down the road I think about that as well (because at first they are likely to just get hooked to the Denon). 

anyhooo... I'll stop now and welcome feedback (including how I should post better on such stuff - I really don't want to go about making new threads about - hey what about this set or that set etc etc). 

 

cheers!

 


 

Yes, your post will help alot.

Welcome again...

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Welcome to the forum and thanks for the clarification. Sounds like you have a nice space to work with. 

 

As far as repairs go, these speakers are pretty bullet proof. The most you should ever have to do is replace an older crossover, but that's easy. Don't let this part worry you. I still stand by the LS and subs recommendation. Would be awesome in that space.

 

There are many companies making streaming amps now. Preamp, amp, DAC and streamer all in one. Lumin and Bel Canto are two that come to mind.

 

 

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For "what it's worth." Have owned Forte I's and II's and was not very impressed with them; yes, not familiar with the IV's. Tried adding K-510 horns to them - overwhelmed the Forte's making them sound "inferior," like cheap bookshelf speakers.  So; if you have the correct "corners," go for KHorns - if not, settle for LaScala's.

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