Could use advice on choosing a pair of mains (new Forte IVs vs. used La Scalas, or Klipschorn) and an amplifier. Use for both streaming music and in a 5.1.4 system.

[rebuy]

22 hours ago, indocti discant said:

Dunno what it is about Klipsch - but I've been attached to them for a long time now. Bought a pair of RP280FAs a couple of years and love them. But about a year or so ago discovered the heritage line and have been yearning to upgrade them. 

Our space is an odd one - it's a studio apartment that has the place set up for home theater and listening to music (Amazon HD music streamed through Denon HEOS). I also have a record player / may get another one in the future. 

Room is maybe 25 feet deep, and we sit about 10 feet away from the speakers right now. 

I've been non stop thinking about which to get and after getting over wanting to buy used speakers - settled on the Forte IVs based on SteveHuff's review. I went through the whole - Yeah I can do the Klipschorns and then realizing that we don't exactly have 2 corners in which to place them, to then thinking oh the La Scalas - to realizing that they might be too big, to the Cornwalls and then even down to the Heresys. 

 

Anyhow, throughout all of this I've still been randomly checking classifieds and a pair of La Scalas have popped up. 1978 Birch - all original - seemingly owned by a woodworker with some extra layers and a guard put on them. My concern with something that old is that I'm not exactly very handy when it comes to doing any upgrades etc and have no sense if such an old speaker would need refurbishment work. 

I also found a pair of Klipschorns with recently replaced woofers - that I'm also thinking about. 

So that sort of brings me to one of my first set of questions - just what should I be concerned about, look at when it comes to anything vintage like that? And has the sound changed considerably to the current ones (which based on everything I've read - it has?). Is there a place I should go to to read up about all of this? 
B

Otherwise, is going with the Forte IVs a better option - brand new - nothing to really worry about for a while yadda yadda?

Finally - if I am to upgrade my receiver (which I likely will) is something like a Denon 6700h or similar Marantz the appropriate choice? I do want to have height front and rear - currently I only have a 5.1.2 system. 

 

Or should I keep my existing Denon for home theater viewing and get a dedicated amp for listening to music? And if so what would be a good one that can play streaming music? 

 

Apologies for what is probably a whole host of questions - trying to be as clear while also being concise. 

Thank you and I look forward to being here

 

Don't you buy Vintage to go for vintage sound?

If not, then buy new.

For vintage sound, replace old crossovers with those specs and push play.

[indocti discant]

Again thank you all for the responses. The other part to all of this is not really knowing what is the appropriate pricing for things. 

And yes, I'd love the KH - I think only the Jubilee could top them. 

I'm currently looking at a pair out in Fremont. Person replaced the woofers (based on Klipsch's suggestions) but said he needs to test them to make sure it isn't a cross over issue. Visually they look great. And I think the KHs (LS also) are such beautiful pieces (and we love our wood furniture) so they also double as that. The only issue with the KHs is (as you can see from the pics) is the lack of proper corners. 

I think no matter what the first issue for me is simply deciding if for the budget which (IDK pulling out the air) is $3-4k is either new Forte IVs, or used (good condition cabinets) La Scalas or KHs. 

Then what to use to power them. 

  I'm glad to be here. I appreciate the warm welcome. 

[Klipschtastic]

Coming from an RP series, I think you’d get a really nice upgrade with the Forte IV. Plus I like the idea of unboxing those beauties new. 

[Peter P.]

Those pillars complicate things. Nevertheless, knowing you own the place and presumably you don't have neighbors on the left/right sharing a common wall, you'll likely not disturb them. Also, I think the reason the sound doesn't travel upstairs is probably due to good, rigid construction.

 

I live in a condo and when I play my stereo on the first floor, there's a good deal of bleed through to the basement, and the second floor, especially at bass frequencies.

 

Same holds true when I play my basement system and head upstairs for something. But my condo is decidedly lower tiered construction.

 

Honestly, where you want to locate the speakers in your diagram puts you too close to them in my opinion. And you've got no corner on the left if you want to put a Klipschorn there. That sure doesn't look like 10 feet from the wall to the sofa.

 

Because of your room arrangement and where you want to locate the speakers and the TV, and the sofa, I'd still suggest going with a smaller Heritage speaker.

 

Of if you wanted to go crazy, wall off that pass through window and put the speakers and TV against that wall, with the sofa back facing the window.

[the real Duke Spinner]

2 hours ago, KT88 said:

Better the KH today than back then.

Mine are 1980s

Came from a For member

[KT88]

9 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

Mine are 1980s

Came from a For member

 

Ok, this was supposed to be fun. Better that you have Khorns today and that your ex-wife "only" took Fortes.

[the real Duke Spinner]

1 minute ago, KT88 said:

 

Ok, this was supposed to be fun. Better that you have Khorns today and that your ex-wife "only" took Fortes.

Lynn Marshall ??  Maybe no longer with us I believe

 

[indocti discant]

1 hour ago, Peter P. said:

Those pillars complicate things. Nevertheless, knowing you own the place and presumably you don't have neighbors on the left/right sharing a common wall, you'll likely not disturb them. Also, I think the reason the sound doesn't travel upstairs is probably due to good, rigid construction.

 

I live in a condo and when I play my stereo on the first floor, there's a good deal of bleed through to the basement, and the second floor, especially at bass frequencies.

 

Same holds true when I play my basement system and head upstairs for something. But my condo is decidedly lower tiered construction.

 

Honestly, where you want to locate the speakers in your diagram puts you too close to them in my opinion. And you've got no corner on the left if you want to put a Klipschorn there. That sure doesn't look like 10 feet from the wall to the sofa.

 

Because of your room arrangement and where you want to locate the speakers and the TV, and the sofa, I'd still suggest going with a smaller Heritage speaker.

 

Of if you wanted to go crazy, wall off that pass through window and put the speakers and TV against that wall, with the sofa back facing the window.

Thanks - that's massively helpful. I'm thinking what if I didn't corner load them and just used them as the awesome speakers they are etc and I think hearing from you (and maybe others) makes me realize that it's poor thinking and that those would be absolute overkill. 

can't tell if the La Scalas would be too big for the space either - again I feel as if I did all this thinking in my head a year or so ago and had settled on the Fortes as the perfect compromise. Then of course greed sets in and I start thinking but what if...

So despite the dreams to have the KHs or LS, I'll have to make (hopefully) the wiser choice and go with the Forte IVs, or maybe the Cornwalls. 

I'm debating the Bstock as small scratches or dents don't bother me, and if they are slighly mismatched etc - no big deal. 

As for the sound stuff - again - can't really tell why sound doesn't bleed up - it's wood construction - hardwood floors. Sound most definitely bleeds downwards. However, when the kids were down there (it was a classroom during the pandemic lockdown) you could hear the portable speaker music and of course the kids jumping around etc. 

And 100% do the pillars complicate things - but lol - this is the lowest floor so I guess they are kinda necessary. 😅

Very fortunate to have a relatively isolated place in SF like this. 

[dtr20]

In my experience, vintage Klipsch heritage speakers (pre 1985 ish) do not do well in home theater. I have experienced this with belles ('79) and khorns ('77). Klipsch speakers in the late 1980s and newer work well. Vintage heritage sound great on a true 2 channel setup.

 

Many people will disagree with this, but I've experienced this several times in my house. I suspect the issue is within the preamp section of the receiver, not the amp, but I don't truly know.

 

There was a forum member a couple of years ago who bought khorns and brought them home and he had no bass like when he demoed them before purchase. It turned out he was using a home theater receiver to drive them. I suggested he borrow or find a cheap stereo receiver to test it out. He went and bought a very nice brand new stereo setup and was blown away by the bass and dynamics out of the khorns that he didn't have before. YMMV

[M_Klipsches]

I’ve got La Scalas in a 13’ X 20 room, in a multi-use mostly music 2.1, or 5.1.2 HT (center & surrounds are Heresys). They are fantastic speakers, even my 42 year old La Scalas more than hold their own with most anything else. You likely won’t be disappointed with vintage La Scalas. They’ll need nothing repaired if they’ve seen even reasonable care, they are largely bulletproof. Good luck with your search, let us know where you land. 

[garyrc]

On 10/19/2022 at 6:23 PM, dtr20 said:

In my experience, vintage Klipsch heritage speakers (pre 1985 ish) do not do well in home theater. I have experienced this with belles ('79) and khorns ('77). Klipsch speakers in the late 1980s and newer work well. Vintage heritage sound great on a true 2 channel setup.

 

Large vintage Heritage which were updated in around 2003, or so, have a steep crossover and a different crossover point to the tweeter.  Kits from Klipsch might still be available (mine were put in 2005).  To me, my Khorns sound better than before the stock AK4/AK5 upgrades (a difference of one resistor, IIRC).

 

My Klipschorns, Belle center, Heresy II surround, with Audyssey, and outboard bass EQ are overwhelming (in a good way) in our combo Music Listening Room and Home Theater.  We also have a sub. 

On 10/19/2022 at 6:23 PM, dtr20 said:

... I've experienced this several times in my house. I suspect the issue is within the preamp section of the receiver, not the amp, but I don't truly know.

 

 

Some people using Home Theater Receivers inadvertently have "Subwoofer" set  to "YES"  or "PRESENT,"  but aren't using a subwoofer! ... or have their main speakers set to "SMALL" with no subwoofer ... any of these could roll the bass off below the typical Xover point of 80 Hz.  The "deep bass" part of the spectrum is approximately the octave of 40 to 80 Hz, so you would not want it rolled off at about 12 dB per octave.  Klipschorns, in my room, will reach 30 Hz at nearly flat, and about 22 Hz with much attenuation.

Kick Drum:

 

 

According to Art Dudley, better quality vintage speakers have: “Natural-sounding dynamics. Impact. Pluck. Snap. Body—especially body. And Soul.”

 

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:36 PM, indocti discant said:

Thanks - that's massively helpful. I'm thinking what if I didn't corner load them and just used them as the awesome speakers they are etc and I think hearing from you (and maybe others) makes me realize that it's poor thinking and that those would be absolute overkill. 

can't tell if the La Scalas would be too big for the space either - again I feel as if I did all this thinking in my head a year or so ago and had settled on the Fortes as the perfect compromise. Then of course greed sets in and I start thinking but what if...

So despite the dreams to have the KHs or LS, I'll have to make (hopefully) the wiser choice and go with the Forte IVs, or maybe the Cornwalls. 

I'm debating the Bstock as small scratches or dents don't bother me, and if they are slighly mismatched etc - no big deal. 

As for the sound stuff - again - can't really tell why sound doesn't bleed up - it's wood construction - hardwood floors. Sound most definitely bleeds downwards. However, when the kids were down there (it was a classroom during the pandemic lockdown) you could hear the portable speaker music and of course the kids jumping around etc. 

And 100% do the pillars complicate things - but lol - this is the lowest floor so I guess they are kinda necessary. 😅

Very fortunate to have a relatively isolated place in SF like this. 

LaScala are sound reinforcement speakers. 

You should listen before purchase

 

 

[aperfectcircle]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:10 PM, indocti discant said:

Dunno what it is about Klipsch - but I've been attached to them for a long time now. Bought a pair of RP280FAs a couple of years and love them. But about a year or so ago discovered the heritage line and have been yearning to upgrade them. 

Our space is an odd one - it's a studio apartment that has the place set up for home theater and listening to music (Amazon HD music streamed through Denon HEOS). I also have a record player / may get another one in the future. 

Room is maybe 25 feet deep, and we sit about 10 feet away from the speakers right now. 

I've been non stop thinking about which to get and after getting over wanting to buy used speakers - settled on the Forte IVs based on SteveHuff's review. I went through the whole - Yeah I can do the Klipschorns and then realizing that we don't exactly have 2 corners in which to place them, to then thinking oh the La Scalas - to realizing that they might be too big, to the Cornwalls and then even down to the Heresys. 

 

Anyhow, throughout all of this I've still been randomly checking classifieds and a pair of La Scalas have popped up. 1978 Birch - all original - seemingly owned by a woodworker with some extra layers and a guard put on them. My concern with something that old is that I'm not exactly very handy when it comes to doing any upgrades etc and have no sense if such an old speaker would need refurbishment work. 

I also found a pair of Klipschorns with recently replaced woofers - that I'm also thinking about. 

So that sort of brings me to one of my first set of questions - just what should I be concerned about, look at when it comes to anything vintage like that? And has the sound changed considerably to the current ones (which based on everything I've read - it has?). Is there a place I should go to to read up about all of this? 
B

Otherwise, is going with the Forte IVs a better option - brand new - nothing to really worry about for a while yadda yadda?

Finally - if I am to upgrade my receiver (which I likely will) is something like a Denon 6700h or similar Marantz the appropriate choice? I do want to have height front and rear - currently I only have a 5.1.2 system. 

 

Or should I keep my existing Denon for home theater viewing and get a dedicated amp for listening to music? And if so what would be a good one that can play streaming music? 

 

Apologies for what is probably a whole host of questions - trying to be as clear while also being concise. 

Thank you and I look forward to being here

 

Any update on what direction you ended up going?

 

As someone who went from RF-82 II (predecessor to your 280s) to Forte III then to Cornwall IV, I say bite the bullet and go for the Cornwall.  You won’t regret it, even if they take up a bit more room than the Forte IV.

[Steve.]

I have been loving my Forte IV since they came out in early 2021.   I believe I received one of the first pairs ,  I think my dealer actually gave me the pair he planned to demo as I had pre ordered them when I tried to buy Forte III

 

They are great speakers , the better the electronics the better they sound.  They really respond well to quality amps.   
 

I am using a 300b amp with mine and I have never experienced such great sound at home.   In fact , they are so good that I blindly bought a custom 300b.    What a combo !!!     They sound so good together I am having a custom preamp built to compliment the amp.  
 

I’d love a pair of Lascala but they are huge.   The Forte IV are the perfect size.   I have had them for almost two years and replacing them is the last thing on my mind.  
 

They replaced a pair of Heresy III which were excellent but the Forte is next level performance 

[indocti discant]

Well here is a surprising update. I'm picking these up this Friday. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by indocti discant

[Tom05]

Good move , Forte is practically an ordinary speaker compared to Klipschorn 🤓

[indocti discant]

I'll need to read up on enclosing / adding baffles to these since I can't corner load them. They will be about 10-12 feet apart from each other. Listening spot will prob be 9 feet away. So not a perfect equilateral triangle. 

 

[John Chi-town]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:17 AM, Peter P. said:

You live in a STUDIO apartment. That means space is at a premium, and you HAVE to consider the amount of space your speakers will consume.

 

It's a practical consideration, and a necessary one.

 

I don't know the square footage of your apartment, or its layout, but I assume your listening space is small, and big speakers either consume a lot of space or aesthetically overwhelm the space.

 

That's why tower speakers (including Klipsch) have come to the fore in the market; a small footprint with full-range sound.

 

With that in mind, and your desire to have a pair of Heritage Series speakers, I advocate you find a pair of Heresy's and add a compact subwoofer such as the SVS 1000 series. The previously suggested Forte's would be an option but here again they might overwhelm the room size-wise.

 

And remember; you're living in an apartment so you'll likely move at some point, perhaps more than once. Moving large speakers, especially LaScalas or Klipschorns, will be a chore, and can result in damaged veneer. These speakers are probably best left for longer term ownership.

 

Oh; and don't forget your neighbors! You'll likely piss them off if you start cranking a pair of Heritage Series Klipsch's! Maybe just skip your ideas and get a pair of headphones...!

Very good advice.  Either forte line or heresy.  Heresy will definitely require a sub whether audio or video.  I owned forte II for 30 years and recently upgraded to forte IV.  I have never felt a need for a sub with forte speakers and I use mine in a 2 -channel setup for both audio and video.  INMHO the forte IV is the "Goldie Lox" of the current Heritage line.  Not too big, not too small and a truly full range speaker.  The forte line is manageable in just about any living environment and will adapt as you get a larger listening area.  Unless you are trying to fill a 2,000 square foot loft.  Take a look at the following review. The only thing I disagree with in both reviews is placement issues on the Forte IV.  After 30 plus years of ownership on this model and 3 different homes and listening environments, 10-14 inches away from the rear well has been the sweet spot for me in all environments.

 

[the real Duke Spinner]

1 hour ago, indocti discant said:

I'll need to read up on enclosing / adding baffles to these since I can't corner load them. They will be about 10-12 feet apart from each other. Listening spot will prob be 9 feet away. So not a perfect equilateral triangle. 

 

3/4 Baltic birch ...not the Chinese stuff either.... buy Georgia Pacific

 

 

[John Chi-town]

1 hour ago, indocti discant said:

I'll need to read up on enclosing / adding baffles to these since I can't corner load them. They will be about 10-12 feet apart from each other. Listening spot will prob be 9 feet away. So not a perfect equilateral triangle. 

 

9 feet away from a pair of Khorns?  Good luck......