Marvel Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, Quad Khorns said: Re-read my previous post No need to re-read, and I am about as low rent as it gets. You can obsess forever and somehow never enjoy the music. To quote Racer X above: "It never makes a difference until it does." As I also said, my LS sounded great anyway. I would guess most others feel the same way, or they wouldn't be such a popular speaker. 22 hours ago, Quad Khorns said: If you are referring to time alignment of the voice coil sound origination point between drivers only separated by a mere inches the answer is an emphatic NO. Without having the LS in my house, I would say approx. 14-16 inches is not "mere inches." Enjoy your evening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 It's the same game with my Tannoy ST200 supertweeters and the Canterburys. There is a template for the spacing but I do the fine tuning by ear. The picture is from the web but it corresponds to my constellation which is not set up at the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, KT88 said: It's the same game with my Tannoy ST200 supertweeters and the Canterburys. There is a template for the spacing but I do the fine tuning by ear. The picture is from the web but it corresponds to my constellation which is not set up at the moment. Where does the midrange come from ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 6 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said: Where does the midrange come from ?? it's a Coaxial driver ( Full range ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, KT88 said: It's the same game with my Tannoy ST200 supertweeters and the Canterburys. did you really need the ST200 tweeters , my question is more so .....is the full range speaker of the Canterbury or Westminster lacking somewhat in the HF higher resolution that the ST200 evens out the spectrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 6 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said: Where does the midrange come from ?? http://truefi.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-tannoy-speaker-design.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 5 hours ago, OO1 said: did you really need the ST200 tweeters , my question is more so .....is the full range speaker of the Canterbury or Westminster lacking somewhat in the HF higher resolution that the ST200 evens out the spectrum TBH I love listening to the Canterbury without the ST200. But then the sound is very focussed on one listener, just as in the studio it is directed towards the sound engineer at the mixing desk. The Tannoy immerse you in the recording, similar to the Underground Jubilee. A LaScala or even a BBC speaker lets your own room resonate. Both have their appeal. When the Tannoy is combined with the ST200 super tweeter, it transforms the monitor into a room-filling hi-fi speaker. This is advantageous when several people are listening. I don't want to go too deep, but the sound of the bass is tighter and there is more timbre. I would like to say that the Underground Jubilee does not demand that you can only hear properly at one point. In fact, you can hear very well anywhere in the room. The Tannoy can't do that. My point was that the Tannoy (for one listener) and the Underground Jubilee (for multiple listeners) immerse you into the soundtrack. This is the white paper regarding the meaning of the super tweeter. https://www.hilberink.nl/tannoy/tsupertweeter.pdf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Strangely enough, there is a sound profile that is very comparable for such different constructions in terms of the depth of immersion in the recording. I would like to mention four very different speakers that are comparable in this respect. In other respects they are not comparable (sound pressure, physical sound and others). Why do I think that is. My candidates are the tiny BBC LS3/5a, the coaxial and analogue time aligned Tannoys with Alnico magnets, the Quad ESL63 (and newer Quad electrostats) and the Klipsch Jubilee (I only know my Underground Jubilee, but in this respect the new Heritage Jubilee will be similarly good, maybe even better because the crossover frequency is even lower). The LS3/5a achieves the goal of glorious spaciousness because the two drivers are very close to each other. At a distance of three metres, it's like an almost point source. The Quad ESL 63 achieves it because (while exciting a foil) they define a starting point of sound and from there electronically mimic the travel time of the speed of sound to the edges of the foil. The Tannoy have a distance between the bass cone and the tweeter horn or be its diaphragm which, when the tweeter is connected with its polarity reversed, exactly compensates for the phase shifts of the crossover and is therefore time aligned and coaxially point aligned. The Jubilees have achieved that exactly in the range of the crossover frequency the radiation characteristics of the bass horn and the K402 are identical. This equal radiation of the frequencies in the transition area of the bass and the K402 is very important and a different constructive approach to the impression of a point source. In addition, time aligned is achieved digitally so that there is no difference in time of flight. This is (to my ears) less important for a floating sound like strings. But it can be very important for impulses like a snare drum to sound real, expressive and very powerful "all of a piece and as one event". But briefly to the other aspects of these four different constructions. The LS3/5a has sounded beautiful for over 50 years, but very quiet and without deep bass. In the sound range of female voices and violins, it is a little piece of heaven. The Quad ESL63 open a window into the concert hall, they are "you are there" but decidedly can not "they are here". They lack the power and intensity for that. An orchestra can sound breathtaking, but a drum stand tom sounds like you can only hear the drum head but not the drum body. The Tannoy are already very powerful and with a little tweak it is a beautiful experience. I like them because they achieve the effects discussed above without digital help. They are very good for brass, vibes, piano and voices. Drums and bass sound very nice and natural but a bit chastened. Unless you take a Tannoy Westminster full horn (not mine, only listened to at dealers places and fairs) which I only like if I have a long listening distance, and they are very expensive. Now the Klipsch Jubilee. They are breathtaking point source, they have no limitation of power and sound pressure, they are more "they are here" but they can also "you are there" very impressive, they have the least limitation as far as all music genres are concerned, and unlike a Tannoy Westminster they sound very complete even from close listening distance. Actually, only advantages. Ok, they are very big, they need a digital interface and to enjoy classical music a very high quality K402 driver is necessary, like the TAD 4002 or the new Celestion of the Heritage Jubilee (plus their wonderful additional phase plug). I have also listened to my UJ with passive xover, it is nice but not the full exploitation. Anyway somehow all these four designs have kinships due to the approach to point source radiation. Maybe a KEF LS50 is also one of them but I haven't heard it yet. All speakers had individually matching amps when listening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 I am using the EV 350 baby butt cheek mid/high they sound fantastic, only one xover point Try some 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 3:40 PM, Marvel said: No need to re-read, and I am about as low rent as it gets. You can obsess forever and somehow never enjoy the music. To quote Racer X above: "It never makes a difference until it does." As I also said, my LS sounded great anyway. I would guess most others feel the same way, or they wouldn't be such a popular speaker. Without having the LS in my house, I would say approx. 14-16 inches is not "mere inches." Enjoy your evening. So many lose track of what this hobby should be It's not about equipment specs It's about music 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Khorns Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 3:15 PM, babadono said: There ARE inexpensive measuring apparatuses(called calibrated microphones) and free software that CAN measure this stuff and give you DATA...just sayin'. Hey just saw your comments. Oh gee, well that is great!!! Please identify what "apparatuses(called calibrated microphones) and free software" that can measure within 9/16" of an inch the location of the acoustical centers of drivers (are you referring to REW and the MiniDsp UM1K-1 microphone?). I'll be waiting for your detailed explanation and procedures on how that is done, and I will hurry and set mine up to do so!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Khorns Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 3:40 PM, Marvel said: et al, Without having the LS in my house, I would say approx. 14-16 inches is not "mere inches." Enjoy your evening. Hate to resurrect a topic that really can't be debated, but I just saw this and \... I must say you really convinced me. I guess all my A/B/C testing comparing the various times delays and trying to hear any difference (yes even the massive 14-16 inches between the tweeter and squawker vc centers of a Khorn) was just proof we were tone deaf ... or we were just hallucinating. So how did you move/adjust the tweeter and squawker on your LS to compare the difference in sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Khorns Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 3:40 PM, Marvel said: Enjoy your evening. And Merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Peace brother and Merry Christmas. So you have done all the measurements and can see differences in measured data before you can hear any differences? That I can believe and not just your ears but just about anyone's including me for sure. It's the law of diminishing returns. Like the old man used to say "it won't make a dimes worth of difference". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Prices are skyrocketing...On hifishark.com, this is currently the most attractive offer for a nice vintage khorn in my view...from first ownership! https://www.ebay.de/itm/Klipschorn-Corner-Horns-for-sale-by-original-owner/235001372531?mkcid=1&mkrid=707-53477-19255-0&campid=5338421008&toolid=10001&customid=ff62eed4-ee84-11ed-b0cf-323565383261&pageci=0746352a-12a7-4811-90ba-ee763d454d09&redirect=mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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