Jump to content

What exactly is Zip Cord ?


SonofJames
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Moderators
25 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

 

In this case it is about 2 (or more) conductor wire that can be easily separated.

Yes, that has always been my understanding - based on what my dad told me about 50 years ago. He was familiar with wiring for magnetic core memory, aviation, aerospace (Mercury, Gemini, etc.) and it was always "zip cord." 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
6 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

The wire from 1982 in my CWs is zip cord, but no one would use it for a lamp since it is white with a lot of red and black markings.

What gauge? I think in the sense of two conductors seamed together, smaller guage, 18, 20, 24 it probably still is "Zip cord." Around our house "zip cord" was brown, 12 ga. and so that's what I picture it as which is probably too limited. 

 

I think the Dope From Home that PWK talks about "speaker wire" and "lamp cord" - can't remember if "zip" was even mentioned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Whaaaat?

You're telling me I was right when I was chided for my liking that specific cable?:rolleyes: 

Knew it was put inside either the newer LS II or AL-5. So the solid copper wire in the Star-Quad Geometry AQ cable does beat the oxygen free tinned copper 10g I put above. That had more LF coming from my itty bitty Klipsch, not needed with the sub. The AQ #4 that I re-acquired last week from storage sounds more articulate through them in this room.

 

had 18 gauge given to me by the stereo shop I got my first components from. Knew a bigger gauge would have less resistivity so I got some 16 at the K-Mart.

Ten is too bulky for me, that was a recent experiment. AQ #4 is equivalent to about 15 AWG if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

That's not accurate. 

 

I don't believe they ever used zip cord internally. On certain models they used AudioQuest in a partnership with them because of consumer demand for "audiophile" wiring. It was tested and determined not to change the transfer function.

 

PWK wrote about speaker wire (from the Amp to the balancing network) in a Dope from Hope and recommended minimum gauges based on runs and I believe suggested "lamp cord" or "zip cord." 

 

Someone would have to dig that out, it's posted on here somewhere. The context of what he was imparting would have to take into consideration the date that he wrote it and what issue(s) he was specifically addressing.  

 

My K Horns from the 80s had Monster wire connecting the top and bass bin, and zip cord inside.  Audiophile approved cause in true Audiophile fashion, they cant figure out how to use a screwdriver.

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Factory "zip" cord in my 1975 Heresy's. Looks like 18awg.

 

For the fella trying to measure his wire gauge with a tape measure that's not accurate enough because you would then need to know insulation thickness to subtract from the total diameter.

 

Your best bet is to strip back the insulation and use a dial caliper to measure diameter and use a conversion chart for stranded wire diameter vs awg.

 

Yes those are the JEM caps installed on the E networks. I have some Russian PIO coming from Bulgaria. All four 2uF caps was $30 which includes shipping. When I have time I'll install the PIO caps on one board and do measurements to compare transfer function, distortion etc..  

 

 

P1010454.JPG

P1010453.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

Factory "zip" cord in my 1975 Heresy's. Looks like 18awg.

 

For the fella trying to measure his wire gauge with a tape measure that's not accurate enough because you would then need to know insulation thickness to subtract from the total diameter.

 

Your best bet is to strip back the insulation and use a dial caliper to measure diameter and use a conversion chart for stranded wire diameter vs awg.

 

Yes those are the JEM caps installed on the E networks. I have some Russian PIO coming from Bulgaria. All four 2uF caps was $30 which includes shipping. When I have time I'll install the PIO caps on one board and do measurements to compare transfer function, distortion etc..  

 

 

P1010454.JPG

P1010453.JPG

That's it ,  klipsch   Zip Cord  , pretty much the standard in   klipsch speakers  for quite a long period of time  , PWK Approved would be accurate 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

Yes those are the JEM caps installed on the E networks

nope , these are  the  rare  Factory klipsch Capacitors used for a very short period of time  in the  mid 70's ,these were mostly found in Heresy Speakers with all Alnico magnet  drivers -woofer-midrange-tweeter.

 

klipsch used these  caps  and another type for a very short period of time when they had a shortage of PIO Cans  ,  they are flat /Yellow with black markings +  glued to the wood board   .

 

spacer.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 hours ago, OO1 said:

nope , these are  the  rare  Factory klipsch Capacitors used for a very short period of time  in the  mid 70's ,these were mostly found in Heresy Speakers with all Alnico magnet  drivers -woofer-midrange-tweeter.

 

klipsch used these  caps  and another type for a very short period of time when they had a shortage of PIO Cans  ,  they are flat /Yellow with black markings +  glued to the wood board   .

I think he was referring to his photos of his speakers and his crossover networks that he replaced with JEM Capacitors. I could be wrong, but that was my impression. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

I think he was referring to his photos of his speakers and his crossover networks that he replaced with JEM Capacitors. I could be wrong, but that was my impression. 

Travis  , Your impression is correct  ,The Captain  did say  he had a set of JEM/klipsch  capacitors in a Heresy  ,it looks like  he posted the wrong picture ,  Tx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
3 hours ago, OO1 said:

That's it ,  klipsch   Zip Cord  , pretty much the standard in   klipsch speakers  for quite a long period of time  , PWK Approved would be accurate 

If that white stuff is considered by most to be "zip cord" than I stand corrected. In my limited world it was always brown, always 12 AWG, and, as Mark mentioned, always very easy to separate. 

 

But if that is in fact zip cord by everyone's definition, and it looks like it is, what else would it be besides "zip cord. Has anyone seen anything else on the inside of other speakers that wasn't zip cord?

 

My recollection is that PWK used the term "lamp cord" for external speaker wire, but I have not been able to find that Dope From Hope yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
4 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

For the fella trying to measure his wire gauge with a tape measure that's not accurate enough because you would then need to know insulation thickness to subtract from the total diameter.

 

Your best bet is to strip back the insulation and use a dial caliper to measure diameter and use a conversion chart for stranded wire diameter vs awg.

you must be an engineer. :) 

 

Nobody in their right mind would pull out a dial caliper to determine the AWG equivalent, because we all have at least one of these:

 

image.png.333a8727bb6bc526151ab860ccbacf83.png

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

 

 

 

My K Horns from the 80s had Monster wire connecting the top and bass bin, and zip cord inside.  Audiophile approved cause in true Audiophile fashion, they cant figure out how to use a screwdriver.

 

 

Now THAT was the stuff that turned green.  Mine were 1990s when there were no terminal strips and the speaker wire from each driver was soldered directly to the networks.  My monster cable turned green. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, OO1 said:

nope , these are  the  rare  Factory klipsch Capacitors used for a very short period of time  in the  mid 70's ,these were mostly found in Heresy Speakers with all Alnico magnet  drivers -woofer-midrange-tweeter.

 

klipsch used these  caps  and another type for a very short period of time when they had a shortage of PIO Cans  ,  they are flat /Yellow with black markings +  glued to the wood board   .

 

Wow thank you for the excellent information. First time for my eyes seeing these stock in older Heritage speakers. They indeed must be pretty rare.

 

You are correct in that all drivers are original Alnico magnets. I prefer the Alnico drivers myself. I can't be 100% certain that my preference is purely sound related, I really like the look of the Alnico magnets and the fact they are lightweight and the speakers are easier to move around. This is due to Alnico having higher max magnetic energy product for the same size compared to Ceramic magnets. Alnico is more stable vs temperature. They can demagnetize but to avoid this they manufacture the magnet in a horseshoe shape, technically that's just what it looks like and it's actually a bar shape. High length to diameter ratios give higher resistance to being demagnetized.

 

On Linkwitz's website there is a "links" page where you can find "putting the science back in loudspeakers".

 

It states;

 

"Using a codec to measure the bit rate of a speaker gives a direct assessment of its figure of merit.
The use of this technique has had some further interesting consequences. Traditional
loudspeakers use ferrite magnets for economy. However, ferrite is an insulator and so there is
nothing to stop the magnetic field moving within the magnet due to the Newtonian reaction to the
coil drive force. In magnetic materials the magnetic field can only move by the motion of domain
walls and this is a non-linear process. The result in a conductive magnet is flux modulation and
Barkhausen noise. The flux modulation and noise make the transfer function of the transducer
non-linear and result in intermodulation.
The author did not initially believe the results of mathematical estimates of the magnitude of the
problem, which showed that ferrite magnets cannot reach the 16-bit resolution of CD.
Consequently two designs of tweeter were built, identical except for the magnet. The one with the
neodymium magnet has higher resolution, approaching that of an electrostatic transducer. Such
precision loudspeakers and drive units require no more than an appropriate degree of rigour
during the design stage, along with some high grade circuit design, but have the advantage that
there usually needs to be very little change between the prototype and the production phase."

 

Ferrite magnets cannot reach the 16-bit resolution of CD is quite interesting to me. I always thought Alnico sounded better but attributed it to my cognitive bias. I have never been able to do any ABX testing to confirm anything. It's not like switching wires with a test box that can be done extremely fast so memory loss doesn't set in. Even if you had two identical loudspeakers with different versions of the drivers they would have to physically sit next to each other giving them different room interactions making the comparisons invalid. It's tricky to test.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, OO1 said:

Travis  , Your impression is correct  ,The Captain  did say  he had a set of JEM/klipsch  capacitors in a Heresy  ,it looks like  he posted the wrong picture ,  Tx

 

The picture is in fact the correct speakers. I was told when I bought them recently that they had updated networks with JEM caps.

 

Upon closer inspection and comparing them to pictures of JEM caps on the internet, the print on them is different and the JEM kit comes with cable tie fasteners where mine are glued to the board.

 

So my Heresy's have original caps in them, very interesting.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

Alnico is more stable vs temperature. They can demagnetize 

 

the K-22   Alnico woofers had   covers on the sides of the magnet assembly to avoid direct  contact to the magnets ,  

 

alnicocap1.jpg

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The original flat polymer caps (Metallized Polyester I think) sound great regardless and they most likely don't need to be replaced but I ordered four 2uF PIO capacitors. Unless the original capacitors show higher than expected ESR values, I can now get a good control plot for what the original networks transfer characteristics look like to compare other types against. I suppose I can pull my can style from my AA's and test since it's been several years since I have done that last. Again, unless they show higher than expected ESR I can get a comparison plot between both vintage style capacitors Klipsch used. I'll have to PM Dean and order a couple JEM 2uF's to test also.

 

Dissipation factor of Polyester Foil types is ~.75%

 

For a 2uF at 10kHz the target ESR somewhere around 5.9ohms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think another differentiation between zip cord/lamp cord, and the old, familiar speaker wire is based on two features.

 

1. Typical speaker wire available at the big box hardware store, such as the Southwire brand, is one or both conductors are copper clad aluminum vs. all copper.

While it saves money/increases profit, aluminum wiring is no longer used for house electrical wiring due to higher heating of the conductors and possible fire.

It's probably not an issue with speakers, but you'll no longer see it in electrical wire such as BX or Romex in residential installations as far as I know. It was used in the '70s I believe.

 

2. Zip cord/lamp cord jacket has different fire rating/burning properties for obvious reasons. That typical, clear jacketed speaker wire does not require such jacketing, which is why lamp cord feels less flexible than speaker wire.

 

3. From the photos above, I can say I have the same wiring inside my Heresies. Due to its flexibility, I'd say it's more like speaker wire than zip cord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...