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klipsch RF7 iii


stev

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What would be the best amplifier in  Rms watts to match the RF7III floor standing speakers to its maximum level. i was thinking of either seperating and bi amping each speaker and giving the highs 225 watts rms and low bass 225 watts rms or having a 500 watt rms amplifier running them both. Is there a better way to get the most out off them?...

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Welcome @stev

 

Here's a link to my discussion about power requirements: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/193845-why-flea-power-is-often-enough/&do=findComment&comment=2529684

 

My tube amps that produce approximately 30 - 40 wpc work great with my RF-7II for music that has the most demanding dynamic range (i.e., large-scale classical), in an average size listening room.  With properly implemented subwoofers, I can achieve near live concert hall dynamic range, and frequency range, with 30 wpc tube amps driving my RF-7II.   

 

For big-band music or folk music, my 8wpc single-ended pentode amp sounds great.

 

Unless you have a very large listening room, and/or you're hell-bent on damaging your hearing (and possibly frying your speakers),  I suggest that you reconsider the need for bi-amping, and the need for 500wpc.   With high sensitivity speakers like the RF-7III, if your goal is to faithfully reproduce the sound of natural instruments (e.g., symphony orchestra), IME/O synergy between the amps and speakers is MUCH more important than using an amp that has an extremely high-power rating.   

 

If you want to increase the acoustic output of RF-7III, I suggest that you consider adding a subwoofer with a crossover before the main amp.   (My Oppo UDP-205 universal player provides the bass management function, meaning that the power-hungry bass is off-loaded from the main amp and speakers.)  With that said, you can achieve great sound from RF-7III without a subwoofer.  

 

See my post linked above for more details.   If you want to read more discussion on this topic, I suggest that you google something like:

  • power requirement site:community.klipsch.com/
  • power needed site:community.klipsch.com/
     

 

 

 

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As long as the amp is not clipping at your listening levels, you have enough power.

 

But if you must "match the RF7III floor standing speakers to its maximum level" then according to the specs, 250W is what you need.

 

At 100dB efficiency, you'll hardly need half that much, let alone bi-amping the speakers.

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1 hour ago, Peter P. said:

As long as the amp is not clipping at your listening levels, you have enough power.

 

But if you must "match the RF7III floor standing speakers to its maximum level" then according to the specs, 250W is what you need.

 

At 100dB efficiency, you'll hardly need half that much, let alone bi-amping the speakers.

Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Peter P. said:

As long as the amp is not clipping at your listening levels, you have enough power.

 

But if you must "match the RF7III floor standing speakers to its maximum level" then according to the specs, 250W is what you need.

 

At 100dB efficiency, you'll hardly need half that much, let alone bi-amping the speakers.

Thanks. 

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3 hours ago, robert_kc said:

Welcome @stev

 

Here's a link to my discussion about power requirements: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/193845-why-flea-power-is-often-enough/&do=findComment&comment=2529684

 

My tube amps that produce approximately 30 - 40 wpc work great with my RF-7II for music that has the most demanding dynamic range (i.e., large-scale classical), in an average size listening room.  With properly implemented subwoofers, I can achieve near live concert hall dynamic range, and frequency range, with 30 wpc tube amps driving my RF-7II.   

 

For big-band music or folk music, my 8wpc single-ended pentode amp sounds great.

 

Unless you have a very large listening room, and/or you're hell-bent on damaging your hearing (and possibly frying your speakers),  I suggest that you reconsider the need for bi-amping, and the need for 500wpc.   With high sensitivity speakers like the RF-7III, if your goal is to faithfully reproduce the sound of natural instruments (e.g., symphony orchestra), IME/O synergy between the amps and speakers is MUCH more important than using an amp that has an extremely high-power rating.   

 

If you want to increase the acoustic output of RF-7III, I suggest that you consider adding a subwoofer with a crossover before the main amp.   (My Oppo UDP-205 universal player provides the bass management function, meaning that the power-hungry bass is off-loaded from the main amp and speakers.)  With that said, you can achieve great sound from RF-7III without a subwoofer.  

 

See my post linked above for more details.   If you want to read more discussion on this topic, I suggest that you google something like:

  • power requirement site:community.klipsch.com/
  • power needed site:community.klipsch.com/
     

 

 

 

Thanks Robert 👍 

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Parasound works great.  Sold many A23+ to go with these.  The metal heads that are half deaf really enjoy the A21+.  However, that's not necessary for most people.  The impedance dip at the tuning frequency on rf-7's is the biggest issue with amps, some don't like that too much at higher volume.  

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41 minutes ago, Paducah Home Theater said:

Parasound works great.  Sold many A23+ to go with these.  The metal heads that are half deaf really enjoy the A21+.  However, that's not necessary for most people.  The impedance dip at the tuning frequency on rf-7's is the biggest issue with amps, some don't like that too much at higher volume.  

Good to know!

What speakers do the metal heads prefer?

 

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If you drive a solid-state amp into clipping (i.e., drive it past its power rating), it might produce a signal that sounds harsh, and might damage the loudspeaker’s high frequency driver.   That’s why it can be useful for a solid-state amp to have ample “headroom” – i.e., more power than is needed most of the time.

 

Some solid-state amps address this issue by providing clipping protection circuitry.    In some cases, the user can enable or disable this feature.   For example, for my NAD C375BEE, there is a rear panel switch:

  • SOFT CLIPPING™: Enables NAD's proprietary Soft Clipping circuitry on all channels.   At [ON] position, Soft Clipping gently limits the output of the C 375BEE to minimize audible distortion should the amplifier be over-driven.   Soft Clipping may simply be left ON at all times to reduce the likelihood of audible distortion from excessive volume settings.   However, for critical listening and to preserve optimum dynamics, you may wish to defeat it by setting this switch to "OFF" position.
     
  • The SOFT CLIPPING indicator on the front panel will illuminate when the C 375BEE is in Soft Clipping mode. 

 

(I’ve never seen the SOFT CLIPPING indicator on my C 375BEE illuminate – i.e., it’s never exceeded its 150 wpc rating.)

 

OTOH, generally tube amps can be driven to their maximum output without producing nasty distortion.   Therefore, for a given set of speakers, a tube amp does not need to have a power rating as high as a solid-state amp in order to deliver satisfactory results, with all other factors being equal.

 

The following equipment configuration in my basement system sounds great, and provides “plenty of punch” (average size room) when playing a CD of big band music:

  • Source:  Oppo UDP-205 universal player
  • Amp:  My Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO tube amp equipped with 6L6GC output tubes produces approximately 8 wpc
  • Stereo Speakers:  Klipsch RF-7 II
  • Subwoofers:  SVS SB16-Ultra and Klipsch R-115SW are connected via Y-adaptor to the Oppo UDP-205 (i.e., the Oppo’s bass management feature off-loads the power-hungry bass from the main amp and speakers).

 

Here’s an example of a CD that sounds great with the above configuration:


713-vEYtaCL._SX425_.jpg

 

I’d be interested in a listening test between this configuration (i.e., 8 wpc SEP tube amp) vs. a 500 wpc solid-state amp when playing a popular music CD via Klipsch RF-7III in an average size listening room, at sane listening levels.

 

OTOH, I love classical music, which can have much more dynamic range and frequency range than most pop music.   When I play large-scale classical music via my basement system, I prefer push/pull tube amps because IMO the configuration described below is excellent at creating the illusion of being in the symphony hall (i.e., natural timbre, full dynamics, full frequency range).  When playing the DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio track of a modern Blu-ray recording of large-scale classical music via my basement system, the sound quality is excellent, and I’ve never had a need for more power.

 

  • Source:  Oppo UDP-205 universal player
  • Speakers:  Left & Right main speakers:  Klipsch RF-7II.   Center:  Klipsch RF-7II.   Single rear:  Klipsch RF-7.   
  • For classical music, I use one vintage stereo push/pull tube amp for the left & right main speakers, and a second stereo tube amp for the center and single rear speaker.   My choices are:   Scott 272, Scott 222C, Fisher KX-200, Scott 296, Pilot SA-260, Scott LK150, Altec 353A, Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO.    The power rating of the push/pull stereo tube amps ranges from approximately 20wpc – 58wpc.  The SEP amp produces 8 wpc.

Here’s an example of a Blu-ray that sounds great with the above configuration when using push-pull tube amps rated at approximately 30 wpc:


71y52lm72LL._SX342_.jpg

 

I’d be interested in a listening test between this configuration (i.e., 30 wpc push/pull tube amps) vs. 500 wpc solid-state amps when playing modern Blu-ray classical recordings via Klipsch RF-7III in an average size listening room, at sane listening levels.

 

(In my basement system I currently have a Kenwood KR-9050 that is rated at 200wpc.   (I used to have a Marantz 2325 in this system.)   For classical music, IME/O I prefer tube amps.)

 

Switching gears to my TV room system (small room), when I use my NAD C375BEE solid-state amp in the following configuration for Hollywood movies, I’ve never had a need for more power:

  • Source:  Oppo UDP-205 universal player
  • Speakers:  Left & Right main speakers:  Klipsch Palladium P-37F.   Subwoofer:  Klipsch P-312W.  Center:  Klipsch RC-64III.   Single rear:  Klipsch RP-502S.   
  • Amp for left & right main speakers:   NAD C375BEE (>150 W at rated THD, 20 Hz-20 kHz, both channels driven)
  • Amp for center and single rear speaker:  NAD D 3045 (60 W, ref. 20 Hz-20 kHz at 0.03% THD, both channels driven)

 

OTOH, when I play large-scale classical music in my TV room system, I prefer tube amps, because IME/O they are better are reproducing the natural timber of orchestral instruments, and they are better at creating the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall.    With tube amps, I can listen for hours without experiencing listener fatigue.  Here’s the tube amps that I have available in my TV room system:   Scott 399, Fisher X-1000, Scott 299C, McIntosh MX110Z / McIntosh MC240 or McIntosh MC225.  

 

(In my TV room system, I used to have the following equipment installed:  Pioneer SX-1980, Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer SX-1010, and Marantz 2285B.  I sold them all, because IME/O they don’t do as good of a job as my tube amps of creating the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall.    With the solid-state amps I’d find myself turning the music off after a few minutes.   With tube amps, I find myself listening for hours.)

 

OP:  FWIW, I believe that the following questions are important:

  • What genre(s) of music do you listen to?   
  • Do you also use this system for Hollywood movies?  If so, what genre(s)?
  • How large is you listening room?  
  • How loud do you like to listen?   
  • What are your goals for your hi-fi system?   For example:
  • To create the illusion of attending a live performance of a classical composition in a purpose-built world-class symphony hall?  
  • Or, to create a small-scale simulacrum of a live performance?  For example, is your relationship with music that you want “background listening” at low volume levels?   Do you want to listen to a compressed recording that plays unobtrusively while you do other tasks, such as doing daily chores?  
  • Or, simply for their hi-fi system to “sound good”, to your ears.   For example, sparkling highs?  Thunderous bass?   Rattle the windows?  Freakish pinpoint localization of instruments?   Damage your hearing?  
  • Other?

 

Which of the following recording formats do you plan to use?

  • LP
  • CD (Stereo-only.   No multi-channel (e.g., 5.1) capability.) 
  • DVD (stereo and 5.1)
  • DVD-Audio (stereo and 5.1)
  • SACD (stereo and 5.1)
  • Pure Audio Blu-ray (DTS-HD MA 5.1, plus stereo track, and sometimes additional audio tracks)
  • Blu-ray (DTS-HD MA 5.1, plus stereo track, and sometimes additional audio tracks)
  • Ultra HD Blu-ray (DTS-HD MA 5.1, plus stereo track, and sometimes additional audio tracks)
  • Hi-res downloads  - 24bit/192kHz PCM (IME, stereo),  Hi-res DSD (stereo and 5.1)

 

The reason that I ask is that there’s a big difference between playing an LP of a “little girl with a guitar” in a small listening room, vs. playing the DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio track of a Blu-ray to deliver in a large listening room an experience that approximates the live performance of Mahler Symphony 2 (which has tremendous dynamic range), and Saint-Saëns Symphony No. 3 in C minor (aka “Organ Symphony”) which has tremendous frequency range.   

 

I strongly encourage you to audition equipment – and listen for yourself – vs. blindly assuming that “more watts” equate to a more enjoyable listening experience.   

 

With all of that said, I can’t imagine an in-home situation where 500 wpc would be indicated for Klipsch RF-7III speakers.   

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On 11/27/2022 at 3:51 PM, Paducah Home Theater said:

Parasound works great.  Sold many A23+ to go with these.  The metal heads that are half deaf really enjoy the A21+.  However, that's not necessary for most people.  The impedance dip at the tuning frequency on rf-7's is the biggest issue with amps, some don't like that too much at higher volume. 

I enthusiastically agree with the Parasound recommendation.  I have both the A21+ and A23+, and the A21+ is being used very, very satisfactorily with our RF5s (the HF sections of which have been modified with the use of the RF-7 (first gen) drivers.  Some small crossover changes were necessary, but the Parasound A21+ and RF5s are really good together.  I will say, however, that we also achieved very good sound with some 300B mono blocks I made, but the large listening area (and vaulted ceilings) definitely benefit from the larger output of the Parasound.

 

Despite the generous wattage of both Parasound amps, I have been so impressed with their superb sound quality.  And yes, Alice In Chains, Chavelle, Audio Slave, Perfect Circle, Tool, and other such heavy metal hitters sound full, detailed, and immediate.  But so do other genres sound equally great, and we listen to tons of acoustic jazz, classical guitar, and so on.

 

I'm presently starting the process of rebuilding my favorite direct-coupled amplifier -- the very large and heavy single-ended Moth Audo Si2A, designed by Craig Uthus.  It's final or output stage offering a trifling fraction of either Parasound, it nevertheless does spectacularly well with Klipsch speakers.  In another era posting here under my old avatar (Erik Mandaville), I mentioned the highly regarded Moth amp in conjunction with Klipschorns, La Scalas, and Heresies.  I listened primarily in the near field back then, and even tiny power amplifiers, if well designed, sounded fantastic with those great old horn designs (which I definitely miss sometimes -- particularly the K-horns).

 

Have tons of fun!  erik

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50-100 watts/channel would be more than enough to drive you right out of the room, with more than enough headroom for whatever you're listening too.  
10 watts/channel would probably give you 20dB headroom for any sane listening.

What's yer budget?  Have fun!

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When I had RF7IIIs, I was running a QSC PLX 1804, 600 WPC into 8 ohms. I could play Daft Punk and use all of the available power, (clip lights blinking).

The speakers just kept getting louder, no breakup or noticeable distortion.

I don't know if they would have held up long at this level, but it was impressive to start "Human After All" for guests at bowel loosening volume.

I agree that 100 WPC is more than enough for normal listening, but once in a while...

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