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Crossover A Klipschorn cap replacement help


Aoran994

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18 minutes ago, richieb said:

Ten pages (so far) on KHorn caps - ?? The sign of an ever evolving (devolving)  forum ?? Enjoy - - - - - 

 

Sorry but I understand the forum in the way that I would like to help if I can contribute a little bit. If I and others here do not make an effort then at the end for the thread opener is statement against statement and opinion against opinion. For this reason it may have become a bit educational. But isn't that part of our hobby? I have a good feeling about the end now. Without the interaction of Dean, CBH, geoff., henry and others we would not now have the result that the thread opener has a good feeling what he is ordering and also that he has found a very lucrative regional source. The MKT will be fine...and if not @Aoran994 can always reorder the cheap Mundorf. If it sometimes takes 10 pages, then in this case it was a good 10 pages. We sometimes forget that some people are music lovers and technically not as knowledgeable as many others here in the forum.

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1 hour ago, Aoran994 said:

ah ok! i didnt understand it then, https://www.costruireaudio.com/crossover/condensatori/condensatori-mkt-250v-5-poliestere/

 

you mean this one polyester, they are very cheap , thanks!!

and I would take 8.2 uF plus 4.7 uF to reach 12.9 uF. If you know someone who can read capacitance you will see there is tolerance of 0.6uF both caps together anyway.

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1 hour ago, richieb said:

Ten pages (so far) on KHorn caps - ?? The sign of an ever evolving (devolving)  forum ?? Enjoy - - - - - 

 

— Edit — make that eleven 


I thought it was about trying to help someone in Italy who doesn’t want to pay $150.00 in shipping costs. 

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37 minutes ago, Deang said:

DF between all of these different Mylar/polyester capacitors is basically the same. What is probably not the same is tolerance. 

 

I know there is some long winded technical posts in here, especially by me but the main takeaway points are;

 

JEM caps are the easiest way for anyone to replace caps and get the intended sonic signature. Sadly the OP is in Italy and exporting them there is not cost effective so we want to try and get him something that will fit form and function to retain the intended sound of the speakers.

 

The simplest way to achieve this is to use the same type of capacitor, in this case Mylar/Polyester which has specific properties that we want to retain the same electrical results. One major factor is not just that DF is high with Mylar/Polyester but it varies quite drastically depending on temperature. I.e. Capacitor quality changes with temperature. Paper capacitors have very similar properties which is another great option when choosing replacement parts. Other types of film caps like Teflon or Polypropylene are too high quality, the DF is far too low to keep the same sound and these caps are very consistent in quality vs temperature. I.e. at temperature extremes DF stays low. With Polyester or Paper at temp extremes DF will increase quite drastically.

 

Simply put, brand has nothing to do with anything, choose replacements based on type of Dielectric. If in doubt find datasheet of said capacitor and look for DF in the datasheet given as a %. You want a capacitor that has a DF ~ .5%

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Too anyone who has made it this far.
 

If you haven’t tried polyester caps you may be in for an ear-opener, depending on what was in there to begin with, and what replaced them.
 

The first time I used them years ago was on a pair of B-3 networks, and because I heard ZERO difference I thought they were a waste of money.

 

The second time I used them more recently was on a pair of Chorus 2 networks, same story, ZERO difference, thought them a waste of money and a little more time (trickier work).

 

The reality is the capacitors probably did not need replacing…

 

Not too long before this thread started I recapped a pair of AA networks with inexpensive polypropylene capacitors AND built a second pair of AA networks (using the same T2A and 2.5mH coils from a repurposed pair of E boards) using CHEAP polyester caps. The difference was not subtle. 
 

I liked the polyester AAs so much they are my reference. I swap out other boards on the top tophat for comparisons. Polyester AAs permanently sealed up in the bottom set, there is an identical stack outside of the picture to the right. The switch from tophats takes seconds. I also removed the grab handles on the top set and screwed a barrier strip on the opening for quicker board changes.

 

The tweeters have been changed (same drivers in each, apples to apples), but they won’t be named to protect the innocent. IYKYK… nuff said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

72E95571-26A3-47F6-9719-4A3978449280.jpeg

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I'm honestly a little glad Aoran came forward with this thread so you really see the dimension of additional costs, same to Germany. My empathy and commitment to his situation has exactly to do with the fact that it was the same game re my costs and the search for alternatives. Therefore once again, if I were in the states it would have been a 10 second email to JEM and the case would have been settled. But no matter if I would be a millionaire or if I just make ends meet, I do not accept such shipping and customs costs.

The crazy thing about this situation is that most people can't believe that in this case the cheap thing is the right thing.

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37 minutes ago, geoff. said:

Too anyone who has made it this far.
 

If you haven’t tried polyester caps you may be in for an ear-opener, depending on what was in there to begin with, and what replaced them.
 

The first time I used them years ago was on a pair of B-3 networks, and because I heard ZERO difference I thought they were a waste of money.

 

The second time I used them more recently was on a pair of Chorus 2 networks, same story, ZERO difference, thought them a waste of money and a little more time (trickier work).

 

The reality is the capacitors probably did not need replacing…

 

Not too long before this thread started I recapped a pair of AA networks with inexpensive polypropylene capacitors AND built a second pair of AA networks (using the same T2A and 2.5mH coils from a repurposed pair of E boards) using CHEAP polyester caps. The difference was not subtle. 
 

I liked the polyester AAs so much they are my reference. I swap out other boards on the top tophat for comparisons. Polyester AAs permanently sealed up in the bottom set, there is an identical stack outside of the picture to the right. The switch from tophats takes seconds. I also removed the grab handles on the top set and screwed a barrier strip on the opening for quicker board changes.

 

The tweeters have been changed (same drivers in each, apples to apples), but they won’t be named to protect the innocent. IYKYK… nuff said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

72E95571-26A3-47F6-9719-4A3978449280.jpeg

 

geoff. that is an impressive description of how you can not improve something good as long as the parts work, and how quickly you run the risk of replacing something that no longer works well but was right by something wrong if you are not careful. The problem is that from the old vintage speakers many of the Aerovox caps are gone and therefore the users don't have a benchmark in mind anymore. So they have the choice of either believing what Klipsch recommends today or believing more expensive replacements could only be better.

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@KT88, I just paid $150 shipping from the states for a K-48 woofer. They rarely come up for sale and the shipping was more than the actual winning bid. But my KP-301s aren’t gonna cut it without one.

 

I live only 2 hours from the U.S. border, but what a difference that border makes to everyone outside of it.

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2 minutes ago, geoff. said:

@KT88, I just paid $150 shipping from the states for a K-48 woofer. They rarely come up for sale and the shipping was more than the actual winning bid. But my KP-301s aren’t gonna cut it without one.

 

I live only 2 hours from the U.S. border, but what a difference that border makes to everyone outside of it.

I thought you were American, so you are in Canada or Mexiko? May be a tank full of gas were cheaper than shipping?

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I’m up in Canada. 
 

SOMETIMES, IF an eBay vendor uses global shipping you can catch a break and you don’t pay more for shipping than the object costs.

 

The sad thing is couriers are now cheaper than the respective post offices. And faster, by a large margin.

 

Gas is pricey here too, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

 

After a couple hours one way shipping starts to make sense, unless you’re going that way. Sometimes fate smiles upon us.

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Regarding polyester capacitors and the link I provided previously to the Canadian company that still has them.
 

If anyone chooses to go this route you will want to confirm the ones you order are in fact still polyester.
 

Apparently ERSE is not supplying them anymore so some values have been replaced with Dayton polypropylenes as they run out.


This thread got me thinking and I want to do an apples to apples comparison with a polyester A crossover soon to be built.
 

My order just arrived. Hence the caveat.

 

Cheers!


 

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This is the joke of history. We talk about the cheapest caps and in a few years no one builds them anymore. In the 1960s and 70s in Germany in every kitchen radio and TV set were Telefunken ECC83 tubes (12AX7 for you). At that time price in today's money maybe 2 USD. Today 500 USD NOS.

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