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Does the AK6 Klipschorn need false corners?


Bhai

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1 hour ago, Bhai said:

I don't have proper corners to place the speakers in. With the new AK6 Klipschorn do I still need to build false corners if I don't have corners?

To reach their specs, especially the low end, they need to be in close vicinity of a corner. The sealed backs give you some flexibility in terms of how you toe them in as they don’t need to be sealed into the corner like the older ones do, but they need to be in a corner to meet the specs. 

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38 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

To reach their specs, especially the low end, they need to be in close vicinity of a corner. The sealed backs give you some flexibility in terms of how you toe them in as they don’t need to be sealed into the corner like the older ones do, but they need to be in a corner to meet the specs. 

Chief bonehead

  On 5/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, Frzninvt said:

This is not true regardless of open or closed backs the Klipschorn still needs a solid corner with ~ 4ft on either side of it to perform to listed specifications.  That will never change and is listed right in the documentation.  Don't believe still ask Trey Cannon and he will confirm it for you.

They have to be in close proximity to a corner. Not in a corner. 

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56 minutes ago, OO1 said:

Chief bonehead

  On 5/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, Frzninvt said:

This is not true regardless of open or closed backs the Klipschorn still needs a solid corner with ~ 4ft on either side of it to perform to listed specifications.  That will never change and is listed right in the documentation.  Don't believe still ask Trey Cannon and he will confirm it for you.

They have to be in close proximity to a corner. Not in a corner. 

That’s correct. 

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1 hour ago, OO1 said:

Chief bonehead

  On 5/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, Frzninvt said:

This is not true regardless of open or closed backs the Klipschorn still needs a solid corner with ~ 4ft on either side of it to perform to listed specifications.  That will never change and is listed right in the documentation.  Don't believe still ask Trey Cannon and he will confirm it for you.

They have to be in close proximity to a corner. Not in a corner. 

Which isn’t what you said up above, and the reason you got the response you did from me. You said “no need for any corners at all” which is complete Bullshit. 
 

You have taken a statement made by people who know what they are talking about and put your interpretation on it. None of the things you quoted stated they don’t need any corners. 
 

So now that you have been enlightened, do you have something to contribute to this persons question? (hint, ask him what his room looks like, diagram, photos, etc.) He wants info on a 16K plus speaker purchase, try and help him get the best information possible on whether he will need false corners of r not.

 

If  AK6 Khorns don’t need corners Roy would have an AES Gold Medal and a Nobel prize in physics, because he would have changed the laws.
 

 

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The Klipschorn is an astonishingly good speaker, so good  that  they really deserve an appropriate room . Two  good corners for sure . Without two good corners , the Klipsch Lascala  would be a wonderful alternative . You  could , maybe alter your room , put in a few corners ,that’s what I did , it’s all part of the fun . Welcome to the forum🤓

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Yes I'm so torn between the La Scala and the K-horn..

 

By the way does a glass window count as a wall? I hope I don't get destroyed for asking this question 😂

 

In my current room, one side is glass and the other side is not a corner.. In my future room one side will be glass, the other side I will get a proper corner..

 

On the one hand I'm not happy that while making such a big investment, I will be 'settling' for the La Scala rather than going for the K-Horn.

 

On the other hand - I understand that the La Scala has the exact same treble and mid horns / drivers.. And it's only the bass thats different. And if I don't have walls then the bass will anyway be compromised?

 

What would you do in my case? Just go for the La Scalas? Or the quality with K-Horns will just be superior anyway?

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1 hour ago, Bhai said:

What would you do in my case? Just go for the La Scalas? Or the quality with K-Horns will just be superior anyway?

 

I guess my first question is where do you intend to purchase the speakers from..?  If your buying from a Heritage Dealer then maybe an in home trial would be a reasonable option so that you can try the Klipschorn AK6 first with the option to return and purchase the La Scala AL5 with high quality subwoofer(s).

 

Ultimately your room’s acoustical quality/characteristics and your freedom or lack of freedom to locate and optimize the loudspeaker system integration will play a defining role in what will work best for you.

 

By the way La Scala AL5 with high quality sub or subs can give you sound that many dream of when implemented properly…!!!🙂

 

miketn

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bhai said:

Yes I'm so torn between the La Scala and the K-horn..

 

By the way does a glass window count as a wall? I hope I don't get destroyed for asking this question 😂

There are no bad, dumb, or silly questions here. Only an occasional uninformed, nonsensical response. You have got the A Team responding and assisting you here now.

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My 2 cents. In a proper room of the correct size and corners with a center channel Cornwall or LaScala the sound will be outstanding with a pair of K-horns. Unfortunately most of us do not meet these qualifications so I would say go for the LaScala's with a big quality sub. At the time I bought my LaScala's price was a big consideration as well but now the price difference is not that great. I thought I compromised and still wished for the K-horn for a number of years but after 37 years with my Lascala's I feel like I made the right choice. You only sacrifice an octave or so on the bottom end with a LaScala vs K-horn but now with great sub offerings the sacrifice is easily solved. In other words the LaScala will fit many more rooms. K-horns really are cool looking though.

 

The choice is ultimately going to be yours "big investment in my world" but it is nice having a forum with others giving the experience and thoughts as well. 

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From the Klipschorn product page on the website (https://www.klipsch.com/products/klipschorn):

"The Klipschorn's low frequency horn has been redesigned and is now fully enclosed. This eliminates the need for the loudspeakers to be positioned snuggly in a corner." 

 

The enclosed back just eliminates the need to be tightly in the corner.  The speakers still needs to be near the corner since the walls act as the final extension of the bass horn.

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I have to agree with the other members:  Klipschorns are great, if you have suitable corners.  However, if, like most people, you live in a home without "Khorn corners", you have two options.  Okay, three actually, if you count finding a new place to dwell, but you never want it to be Heartbreak Hotel.  Other than that, you can construct, or have constructed, a pair of false walls, as per the instructions that come with Heritage Series speakers.  They don't have to be full wall height.  4 feet high is tall enough, and 8 feet long, but formed into a 90 degree corner, so that's two 4-foot lengths on each side of the speakers.  They have to be sturdy, but then you're all set, and you can place your Klipschorns where you like, and pointing where you like, but in the general area of corners is preferred.

 

A normal glass window does not count as a wall, unless maybe it's a very solid commercial curtain wall, like you find in some office buildings.  But that's still not ideal.  The Khorn is a speaker that appears to defy physics, by being a realistically sized horn-loaded speaker that can actually produce deep bass.  It does it by using the walls of the room, but to pull off the trick, the walls need to be rigid.

 

The easy alternative is the La Scala with good quality subwoofers.  One will do, but two are preferred, to give even bass response throughout the room.  The total price is still a bit lower, even if the subs are really good, and you don't need corners at all.  There's no trade-off in sound quality, because, as you note, the Scala uses the same drivers as the Khorn (I don't know whether the KHorn gets the great new Celestion tweeter that the AL5 gets.  Someone must know.), and the same mid and high frequency horns as the Khorn.

 

Some people even prefer the sound of La Scalas plus sub(s) over the sound of the Khorn, even in a room with totally ideal corners, so you would not be "settling for less".  In my room, the stereo is on the West wall of the room, but there's an electric baseboard heater on one side, and the other side opens to the dining room, so Khorns would be out of the question.  The East side of the room is just as bad.  However, with my JubScala IIs (bi-amped La Scala IIs with Jubilee tweeters and K402 tweeter horns), the bass goes down to 18 Hz, thanks to a pair of $1300USD (each) Paradigm subwoofers.  They have the speed and power to match the La Scala IIs, even though the LS2s are driven with a pair of 500 Wpc power amplifiers.

 

Tonight, another factor came to light.  I was watching Top Gun Maverick, which contains lots of stirring music and jet fighter sounds as our heroes cavort through the skies in the name of freedom.  When I got the LS2s back in 2013, I didn't want the hassle of selling the old La Scalas, so I just moved them behind and to the sides of the sofa to displace the Heresy IIs that I'd been using as Surround speakers.  Sure, it seemed very decadent at first, but they fit right in, and the Heresy IIs went to a very happy new Klipsch owner.

 

The point is that there's an advantage to having matching Main and Surround speakers.  The matching timbre means that when similar material is being fed to the speakers, they produce very similar sounds, as they should.  There's a Forum member, IndyKlipschFan, who has a 7-Scala home theatre.  Although you'd have to hear that system to know, you can try to imagine how a totally matching speaker system all the way around could sound.  Listening to that movie last night, it was great to hear the same full sound coming from the Front and Rear/Side speakers.

 

However, as you know, finding a room with 2 "Khorn corners" can be a challenge.  Finding 4 "Khorn corners" in a single room can be just a bit more difficult.

 

Your decision is up to you, and now you have the information you need.  Take your time, add everything up a few times to see if you're getting consistent answers, and then think a bit more.  As you may have read occasionally on the Forum, the AL5s are really good speakers.  For many of us, they're "end-game" speakers, the ones you won't even think of replacing, because they sound that good.  At that point, upgrades are upstream from the speakers, in the form of better electronics.  Better amps and pre-amps, better turntable cartridges, even a better turntable, maybe.  As time goes by, new technology arrives, but often the speakers stay the same.  My old La Scalas are 48 years old, and I have 42-year-old floorstanders of another brand in the bedroom.  Sure, speakers change.  One day, Klipsch will introduce AL6 speakers, but in the meantime the listening is great.  Hop in! 

 

Welcome to the Forum, Bhai!  And best wishes for a great-sounding 2023!

 

 

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5 hours ago, Islander said:

There's a Forum member, IndyKlipschFan, who has a 7-Scala home theatre.  Although you'd have to hear that system to know, you can try to imagine how a totally matching speaker system all the way around could sound.

 

Yep....you have to hear it to believe.

 

I heard it in (what I think was) his old house.  Three LaScalas across the front and the imaging was stunning.  He was playing 2-channel and the center sound was absolutely locked in.  I took it upon myself to walk towards the center speaker and as I got four feet away....three feet away....  the sound "it" was providing gently widened and dissappated to the right and left channels.  I've never heard imaging as strong as this setup.  As I recall, he might (did I say might?) have gone a bit bonkers on the room treatments but the reality was, it worked very well.

 

I've owned LaScalas for a couple years (43)and never felt slighted by them however, I did always lust after a pair of Khorns which was my introduction to the family.

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8 hours ago, OO1 said:

Based on Mr Martin's statement ,  this leads me to believe that the permanent enclosed walls of the AK-6  produce a similar result as installing  false corners behind a non-enclosed backs khorn ,  

Well you are wrong, and you apparently don’t have the capacity to understand why.

 

The designer of the speaker @Chief bonehead has already addressed this up above. 

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