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Klipsch Heritage Jubilee vs. Underground Jubilee Upgrade


diamonddelts

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3 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

If I keep the current 535 Jubilee and change the drivers, I could afford my dream Macintosh 1K monoblocks. If not, I go with the Heritage Jubilees and a used Crown Itech amp. Ah decisions, decisions.

 

OR, you could just keep saving for a few months and then get everything you want.  You don't have to have a new sound system the day you move in.  You've already got pretty good gear.  Apply feet to ground for a bit.  If you don't mind me saying. 

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4 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

If I keep the current 535 Jubilee and change the drivers, I could afford my dream Macintosh 1K monoblocks. If not, I go with the Heritage Jubilees and a used Crown Itech amp. Ah decisions, decisions.

 

If that was my options I know without a doubt I would choose the Heritage Jubilee based on my experiences.

 

miketn

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3 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

If that was my options I know without a doubt I would choose the Heritage Jubilee based on my experiences.

 

miketn

Have you heard the 535 Jubilee? Mine has the K-691 on the 410 horns and KT-1133-HP on the 402 horns.

 

Just trying to get a better idea of the comparison 

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1 hour ago, diamonddelts said:

Have you heard the 535 Jubilee? Mine has the K-691 on the 410 horns and KT-1133-HP on the 402 horns.

 

Just trying to get a better idea of the comparison 

 

Yes I’ve heard the 3-way Jubilee and it is excellent and rivals the Underground Jubilee 2-way with K402/TAD4002..👍

 

miketn

 

 

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

Yes I’ve heard the 3-way Jubilee and it is excellent and rivals the Underground Jubilee 2-way with K402/TAD4002..👍

 

miketn

 

 

Ok with that being said, is there a large gap in fidelity for the high frequencies and upper mids between the 3 way Jubes and the Heritage Jubes?

 

I am assuming the Heritage Jubes sound more coherent. But the 3 ways were more prominent In the high frequencies compared to the older 2 way UG Jubes I heard .

 

I am not interested in differences in the lower frequencies since I will always use horn loaded subs.

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I have 3-way UG Jubs with TADs 4002/691s and 884 and 684 subs.  All that in any 2-way/3-way + either subs combo simply does not approach the new Heritage Jubs.  I was there and heard them side by side.  A different beast altogether.

 

But........I'm actually very happy with all that as is........for now.  Where else you gonna go?  MCM maybe?

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2 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

Ok with that being said, is there a large gap in fidelity for the high frequencies and upper mids between the 3 way Jubes and the Heritage Jubes?

 

I am assuming the Heritage Jubes sound more coherent. But the 3 ways were more prominent In the high frequencies compared to the older 2 way UG Jubes I heard .

 

I am not interested in differences in the lower frequencies since I will always use horn loaded subs.

 

I haven't heard the 3-way original Jubilee, but I can tell you that the Heritage Jubilee is much better in the higher frequencies than the 2-way Underground Jubilee.  Once the K-402/Axi2050 combination is eq'd flat, the response goes out to 20 kHz and beyond.  In fact, if you are going to use the Axi2050, I suggest that you try it 2-way.  That has the advantage of removing a crossover point and making the speaker close to a point source until it crosses with the bass bin.  (Either way you can also lower the crossover point with the bass bin to get the polars to better match at that point.)

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28 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

I have 3-way UG Jubs with TADs 4002/691s and 884 and 684 subs.  All that in any 2-way/3-way + either subs combo simply does not approach the new Heritage Jubs.  I was there and heard them side by side.  A different beast altogether.

 

But........I'm actually very happy with all that as is........for now.  Where else you gonna go?  MCM maybe?

That is the comparison  I was looking for. Thank you. I would love the KPT-MCM-3 GRAND. But,  I figured I will be on my own trying to figure out  crossovers for it.

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24 minutes ago, OO1 said:

   Mike ,  are you using  SS amps  with the HJ   

 

Yes, I'm using the amp that @Paducah Home Theater recommended for the Jubilee, the Cyrus Stereo 200.  I have four of them for the 5.0 setup, two for the Jubilee, one for the center speaker (a two-way speaker with DSP crossover and an Axi2050 HF driver), and one for the La Scala AL5 surrounds.

PXL_20230131_014051959 (Large).jpg

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2 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

I am not interested in differences in the lower frequencies since I will always use horn loaded subs.

 

The Celestion Axi2050 Driver along with Roy’s “Extended Phase Plug” combined with the K402 is just one aspect of the Heritage Jubilee and seems to get a lot of the attention/interest while the Heritage Jubilee LF Horn seems to only be noticed for its extension down to 18Hz and while that is groundbreaking in itself but it is just one aspect of the design and I believe what’s not being realized is the total performance of the LF Horn throughout the 18Hz - 320Hz frequency spectrum. The lack of distortion, clarity and level of natural and realistic reproduction of the fundamental of almost all instruments and vocals is something that I believe anyone will experience within just a few minutes of listening to quality recordings. The Heritage Jubilee LF has simply taken the best of the Underground Jubilee LF and improved upon every aspect of performance to bring us another step closer to reality IMHO.

 

It seems to me that many listeners simply don’t understand the gravity of importance in how the frequencies of 18Hz - 300Hz is reproduced by the loudspeakers and the “loudspeakers interaction” with the typical home listening room’s dimensions and boundaries in the 18Hz - 300Hz frequency region is what IMHO has to be the largest obstacle to high quality realistic sound reproduction. The Loudspeaker/Room Setup in the region of 20Hz - 300Hz in my experience will make or break the sound of your systems reproduction and unfortunately the most challenging for many listeners to achieve.

 

For anyone interested here is an “interactive chart” that shows in part the importance of getting this 18Hz -300Hz part of the spectrum is for the Fundamentals of almost all instruments and vocals to be reproduced accurately.

 

https://alexiy.nl/eq_chart/

 

 

miketn

 

 

 

 

 

 

7CB0BC5A-5CEA-43E5-825A-9313E46573BE.thumb.jpeg.8142b759cbe44f501bc84e12eb51ab63.jpeg

 

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3 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

That is the comparison  I was looking for. Thank you. I would love the KPT-MCM-3 GRAND. But,  I figured I will be on my own trying to figure out  crossovers for it.

 

I have long since changed my UJ setup (and my 4-way MCM) both, to only 2-way + subs.  Both systems have TADs on the 402s.  I use Roy's settings in a pair of Xilicas.  Took me a while to adjust because I was always a 3-way guy up until a couple of years ago.  Turns out less ended up being more in my room.

 

 

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On 1/31/2023 at 6:38 PM, mark1101 said:

 

I have long since changed my UJ setup (and my 4-way MCM) both, to only 2-way + subs.  Both systems have TADs on the 402s.  I use Roy's settings in a pair of Xilicas.  Took me a while to adjust because I was always a 3-way guy up until a couple of years ago.  Turns out less ended up being more in my room.

 

 

 

When you eliminated one crossover point by going from 3-way to 2-way, how did it sound different/better?  Was the frequency range of the sound better integrated?  Did the bass and treble sections of your speakers seem to work better together after the change, meaning did the mid-treble integration have beneficial effects further down the frequency range?

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The biggest improvement was allowing the TADs to stretch out to 20K and not having a second/different driver.  Better quality sound.  The TADs are clean and clear top to bottom.  1 darn good driver.

 

When I was using Roy's settings in 3-way the crossover was pretty seemless anyhow.  I always liked 3-way because I felt it gave more emphasis to the highs.  But in the end not needed in my room.

 

I can remember using the 691s on the 402s in 2-way with Roy's settings.  That was VERY hard to beat in my room on every type of music I tried.  That was the most recent setup in Hope as well and it sounded excellent.

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A bit rhetorical....

 

How high can you hear anyway?

 

Terry DeWick was once at my house.  Wanted to hear the Undergrounders.....  brought some tunes AND some testing equipment.  

 

Went through some of the tracks....  then he pulled out his analyzer, slapped his mic wherever he put it....  and did some frequency sweeps.

 

I was amazed at how linear the line was as it swept up the frequency....  then it dawned on me....  the line was still going up but, my ability to hear it had stopped.  I don't recall but I think it was 14K to maybe 16K and it was quiet BUT, the line was still moving.

 

Not being terribly technically minded like some of the others here, that made me wonder if there was any merit in situations where someone might add a 'super-tweeter' if you can't hear it up there.

 

 

Now, side comment....  when I was in college, I took a physics class.  I had a curious question, wondered if the Prof might know so visited with him at his office.

 

The question was essentially: If you have two tweeters, one can go to say, 25Khz and the other can only go to say 20Khz.  Since the higher frequency is symbolic of it vibrating faster, would that mean that at LOWER frequencies, the tweeter capable of faster movement would be able to 'fill in' some of the lower content with more accuracy since it can move quicker than the "slower" tweeter.

 

He said I was actually asking about a power question and went way over my head....  (I was looking for yes but....or no but... and I was lost on his answer)

 

 

@mikebse2a3  I just gotta say, your comments are ALWAYS fantastic.  Your calm, smooth demeanor, technical detail, open approach to your posts are always of great help and a good read.  I don't know if or how often you've been called out on that so I thought it deserved a shout out!

:emotion-21::emotion-21:

 

 

(not to diminish anyone else's)

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@Coytee, if you like have a read of this brief white paper regarding the sense and effect of supertweeters even if it concerns another brand of speakers the text shows general principles about what we are able to listen to and more important, how the listenable band can change when using additional ST due to phase correction. I own this ST200 together with my Tannoy Canterbury from 1993 and I must say that even the bass sounds more refined. On the other hand I like the vintage sound without additional supertweeter very much as well and it is perhaps a little less information but it is also less fatigue .

 

https://www.hilberink.nl/tannoy/tsupertweeter.pdf

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On 1/31/2023 at 5:27 PM, diamonddelts said:

Ok with that being said, is there a large gap in fidelity for the high frequencies and upper mids between the 3 way Jubes and the Heritage Jubes?

 

I am assuming the Heritage Jubes sound more coherent. But the 3 ways were more prominent In the high frequencies compared to the older 2 way UG Jubes I heard .

 

I am not interested in differences in the lower frequencies since I will always use horn loaded subs.

You are never going the hear such stuff 

people beat theoretical issues to death here

 

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