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Klipsch Heritage Jubilee vs. Underground Jubilee Upgrade


diamonddelts

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2 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

You are never going the hear such stuff 

people beat theoretical issues to death here

 

I think the most helpful scenario for this would be a double blind listening test. It will be fun to see how accurately people could discern between the two versions when listening to various songs.

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Something else I appreciate is the that the heritage Jubes are a professional finished product. They seem to consist of high quality drivers and a manufacturer included crossover.  For years I've read on different experiences where people were gutting the drivers and experimenting with different crossovers on various Klipsch models. This makes it hard to gauge what an actual Klipsch speaker from the manufacturer sounds like.

 

And that is largely why I experimented with so many other brands for years before I finally settled on trying any Klipsch models.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, babadono said:

Double blind would be best, but yes would that not be interesting:)

Don't think I could accurately tell.

 

I liked that white paper above.  One interesting bit was about measuring a change in the brain waves of subjects listening to super tweeters or not.  A prime example of "not everything that can be measured (necessarily) matters..."  On one level I think surely if my brainwaves change the difference is perceptible - I could tell...but....MAYBE not... HeHeHe.

 

One thing I do know is I like the sound of my UG Jubes with TAD 4002s driven by First Watt SIT2 up high and Hypex NC400 monoblocks down below.  Looking forward to comparing them to a new set of K402 based MEHs I have in the works based on Chris' center prototype.

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On 2/2/2023 at 12:49 PM, babadono said:

Double blind would be best, but yes would that not be interesting:)

Don't think I could accurately tell.

 

On most recordings it's about as difficult as picking out which song  was recorded by Celine Dion on a CD that is otherwise full of Slipknot songs.  

 

 

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  • Klipsch Employees
On 2/2/2023 at 12:39 PM, diamonddelts said:

I think the most helpful scenario for this would be a double blind listening test. It will be fun to see how accurately people could discern between the two versions when listening to various songs.

It won’t be hard to tell the difference. 

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On 2/2/2023 at 3:16 PM, diamonddelts said:

For years I've read on different experiences where people were gutting the drivers and experimenting with different crossovers on various Klipsch models. This makes it hard to gauge what an actual Klipsch speaker from the manufacturer sounds like.

My HIIs are stock. They sound great, so I guess they sound like Klipsch wanted them to sound. Could they use new caps? Don't know.. maybe I'll contact JEM and see about a cap kit. I spend most of my time listening to music, not fussin' over the speakers.

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On 2/4/2023 at 1:01 AM, babadono said:

Are we talking about the WHOLE speaker? New Heritage Jube with an UG Jube? I thought we were talking about the HF section of the new Heritage compared with a UG with TAD4002s.

The whole speaker and nothing but the speaker. So help me God. :)

 

Seriously meant the hf section of the Heritage Jube against Celestion Axi 2050 in older 3 Way Jube 535 model.

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This thread has meandered a bit, so I thought I would try to clarify things.

 

First, let me make sure we're clear about the scenario.  @diamonddelts, let me know if I've got this wrong.  You are moving to a new home.  The question is whether you should purchase new Heritage Jubilee (and presumably sell or repurpose the UG Jubilee) or upgrade the existing 3-way UG Jubilee (with existing horn subs) instead.

 

If this is the case, I can see the cost advantage of trying to leverage the value of your current investment.  Trying Celestion Axi2050 on the existing Jubes is a relatively low risk option since I'd think you would have no trouble selling the drivers if you didn't like the results.  (Of course, that means waiting until they are back in stock at Parts Express.  Been there.)  Maybe just go ahead and try it.  As I suggested before if you do this, go to a 2-way configuration.  This has the advantage of removing a crossover point and makes the speaker a practical point source from the bass bin crossover point on up.  The Axi2050 is more than capable of response to 20 kHz and a little beyond.  In any case, with the Axi2050 you could likely lower that crossover point as well to get the K-402 and bass bin polars a better match at that point.  However, understand that replacing the existing compression driver with the Axi2050 means that you will have to reprogram the DSP.  You could try Chris A's settings from this thread to start with and tweak from there (https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/199267-celestion-axi2050-2-compression-driver-on-k-402-horn-and-jubilee-bass-bin/).

 

However, only by finding some place to hear the Heritage Jubilee would you be able to decide if the results that you get are "close enough" compared to buying new Jubilee.  As stated before, this only gets you improved HF on-axis performance and maybe a bit better integration with the bass bin with a low crossover point.  It gets you none of the reduction in HF beaming due to the new wide dispersion phase plug.  More importantly, it gets you none of the amazing magic of the new bass bin.  There's something magical about reproduction from 18 Hz to 20 kHz from only two sources in the room with amazingly consistent polars throughout and only a single crossover point in that entire range.  I don't think even well integrated subs would match it.  You definitely need to experience it before making a final conclusion.  I'm amazed every time I fire up my Heritage Jubes.

 

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40 minutes ago, MMurg said:

This thread has meandered a bit, so I thought I would try to clarify things.

 

First, let me make sure we're clear about the scenario.  @diamonddelts, let me know if I've got this wrong.  You are moving to a new home.  The question is whether you should purchase new Heritage Jubilee (and presumably sell or repurpose the UG Jubilee) or upgrade the existing 3-way UG Jubilee (with existing horn subs) instead.

 

If this is the case, I can see the cost advantage of trying to leverage the value of your current investment.  Trying Celestion Axi2050 on the existing Jubes is a relatively low risk option since I'd think you would have no trouble selling the drivers if you didn't like the results.  (Of course, that means waiting until they are back in stock at Parts Express.  Been there.)  Maybe just go ahead and try it.  As I suggested before if you do this, go to a 2-way configuration.  This has the advantage of removing a crossover point and makes the speaker a practical point source from the bass bin crossover point on up.  The Axi2050 is more than capable of response to 20 kHz and a little beyond.  In any case, with the Axi2050 you could likely low that crossover point as well to get the K-402 and bass bin polars a better match at that point.  However, understand that replacing the existing compression driver with the Axi2050 means that you will have to reprogram the DSP.  You could try Chris A's settings from this thread to start with and tweak from there (https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/199267-celestion-axi2050-2-compression-driver-on-k-402-horn-and-jubilee-bass-bin/).

 

However, only by finding some place to hear the Heritage Jubilee would you be able to decide if the results that you get are "close enough" compared to buying new Jubilee.  As stated before, this only gets you improved HF on-axis performance and maybe a bit better integration with the bass bin with a low crossover point.  It gets you none of the reduction in HF beaming due to the new wide dispersion phase plug.  More importantly, it gets you none of the amazing magic of the new bass bin.  There's something magical about reproduction from 18 Hz to 20 kHz from only two sources in the room with amazingly consistent polars throughout and only a single crossover point in that entire range.  I don't think even well integrated subs would match it.  You definitely need to experience it before making a final conclusion.  I'm amazed every time I fire up my Heritage Jubes.

 

Yes sir you got my scenario spot on. And thank you for your additional comments.

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55 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

They have released more details on the Heritage Jubilee listening during the PWK birthday bash. It will be on March 10th. You sign up in advance, in small groups, about 10. For 2 hour sessions. I believe 3 sessions. This will be in the lab listening room.

 

That would be a great opportunity to listen to them, exactly the way we heard them at the last JubFest.  You're not going to find a more ideal setup than that.  Also, if Roy is running the show that day, it will be a great opportunity to ask questions.

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On 1/31/2023 at 8:38 PM, mark1101 said:

 

I have long since changed my UJ setup (and my 4-way MCM) both, to only 2-way + subs.  Both systems have TADs on the 402s.  I use Roy's settings in a pair of Xilicas.  Took me a while to adjust because I was always a 3-way guy up until a couple of years ago.  Turns out less ended up being more in my room.

 

 

Woah.... For all these years I thought you were just way more sensitive to modulation distortion, and the multi-way approach makes a ton of sense in that regard. Are you still listening to the same music / same loudness / etc... ? Or maybe music preferences have shifted?

 

I never thought you'd go 2-way (or I guess technically 3-way if you're running subs). I'd love to hear more about the pros/cons of why you've made the change.

 

My biggest criticism of the new heritage Jubilee is it feels like that compression driver has to work hard to dig so low in frequency. It reminds me a bit of those old lowther designs where they try to use a single driver over the whole audio range. My biggest praise of the new heritage Jubilee is Klipsch finally has a bass horn that sounds great. Not a hint of tubbiness at all, and it doesn't have that "too accurate" sound of lascala / khorn that makes rough recordings sound really shrill. Roy blasted some Tool for us at Axpona last year and the bass was incredible. Overall the Heritage Jubilee is definitely an upgrade.

 

I know I'm nitpicking about the HF performance...I think it's just worth noting that there's some compromise there (as are all things audio / engineering related). The place I notice it the most is in the oompf of a snare drum thwack. It gets crunched up a bit instead of having this thwack that hits you in the neck. You could get that thwack back pursuing some sort of 3-way with the Jubilee, but then that crossover to the highs would destroy your imaging - and there's probably not a way around that (yet). I remember the UG Jubilee having more thwack in the snare, but it comes with some tubbiness in the bass. The Heritage Jubilee is definitely the better compromise, but that snare drum sound is sooo important for a lot of music....maybe less so in the jazz / orchestral realms that a lot of audiophiles listen to.

 

 

Anyways, this stuff comes to mind because Mark has always been someone in my mind with a super fine detector for modulation distortion. I'd really love to get your thoughts, Mark, on the UG versus Heritage sound if you've had a chance to compare them side by side. Unfortunately I'm going off memory and very different environments when I got to hear them in person.

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On 1/24/2023 at 12:57 PM, diamonddelts said:

I just got married....

I don't think anyone picked up on this....

 

I was always told we had to get our audio toys before getting married. You are a brave man, haha.

 

Btw, newly married myself and getting a new house this year. I haven't broached the speaker conversation yet, so I might be reaching out for tips, haha ;)

 

Oh, and congrats! And good luck with this crazy housing market.

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On 2/2/2023 at 10:53 AM, Coytee said:

Since the higher frequency is symbolic of it vibrating faster, would that mean that at LOWER frequencies, the tweeter capable of faster movement would be able to 'fill in' some of the lower content with more accuracy since it can move quicker than the "slower" tweeter.

 

He said I was actually asking about a power question and went way over my head....  (I was looking for yes but....or no but... and I was lost on his answer)

Did you ever get your question answered ... or figure it out yourself?

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